Dealing with 4yo temper tantrums

[Hurryupbaby11]

4 year old DS is going through a bad phase. He doesn't seem to listen to instructions (or more likely listens but totally disregards them!) He is often grumpy which I'm sure is largely down to tiredness from starting school.

But the temper tantrums are something else! He didn't tantrum at 2 or 3 so I thought we got lucky and missed that stage but he's more than making up for it at 4 with daily tantrums

What I struggle with is when they are as a result of discipline - how do you handle it?

Example - this morning, I asked DS to stop doing something. He carried on. I asked again. He carried on. I asked him once more and told him that was a final warning before I took some toys away. He carried on so I took said toys away. Cue an almighty tantrum and crying fit. Refuses to put school shoes on or leave the house for school etc.

What should I do? I haven't got time to let him get it out of his system and he's not listening to any reasoning. Last week I decided not to back down and carried him out of the house mid tantrum and he cried all the way to school (I cried all the way back!) This morning I gave him the toys back but told him they would go again if bad behaviour started again. Felt like neither was the right approach and the neighbours probably think I'm an awful mum (I feel like this often at the moment.)

Any tips?!

Is the bad behaviour related to the toys? Also how bad is it, what did you ask him to stop doing? If it was something unrelated like bouncing on the sofa then you either need to lower your standards or just send him out of the room. If it was something dangerous then of course needs to be addressed. But you have to remember at4 they aren't really capable of fully understanding instructions and consequences and will forget things

Has he just started reception?
DS1 has, I'm moving dinner and bedtime an hour earlier - I think most of the naughtiness is tiredness tbh.

I have a 5 year old doing very similar at the moment in terms of not listening. I do think you're making a bit of a rod for your back by giving a 'severe' punishment before leaving the house. If punishment triggers a tantrum, then it should be avoided until you have a time frame to let him calm down.

Could you try positive reinforcement instead? Small rewards for listening rather than warning? For example 'if you get your shoes and coat on now, you can have a small biscuit for the walk to school!'.

As for the putting shoes on make sure you are concentrated fully on him getting his shoes on. So tell him clearly to put his shoes on and stand by him so he realises what you want him to do. If you tell him to put his shoes on then continue getting your coat/bag/doing hair etc then he isn't really sure what he wants from you. After the third time of telling him and he doesn't t do it just put them on for him. As for refusing to leave the house to go to school just tell him you are leaving the house anyway, he can chose whether to go to school or not on the way. If he doesn't go to school then hell probably realise how boring it is at home. My 4 year old does this

What should you do? Carry on as you are! The tantrums are a signifier that he’s learning. Learning stuff he doesn’t like and has no control over. Be consistent and stand firm.

The behaviour is not normally dangerous - this morning he kept making a spitting noise which we asked him to stop and he carried on.

We've had another meltdown before bed - DH was changing baby and DS asked him for something. DH said he would do it once he'd finished changing baby but DS insists it must be now. DH suggests DS asks me. DS refuses and says it must be DH that does what he wants. And another tantrum starts. I say no TV due to tantrum which makes it worse. I then walk back into room and he has found the remote and turned it on himself.

It's all fairly trivial stuff so I do wonder if we're being too strict but the general ignoring instructions, answering back and whinging is zapping my patience at the moment.

Yes, he has just started reception and is definitely tired. This has all started since then. What time do you do bedtime now @Camomila?

How old is the baby? Is he competing for attention maybe?

OP, it’s interesting that you say he didn’t tantrum at 2 or 3 years of age, which is when most toddlers are pushing boundaries, saying No, trying to get their own way.
It’s possible he is simply going through this developmental stage a little later than average.
It certainly sounds like he is testing you - picking fights over trivial matters, defying you wherever possible, making unreasonable demands, etc.
I would recommend treating it the same way you would with a toddler. Be firm, be consistent, have sensible rules (but as few as possible) have clear consequences for bad behaviour, reward good behaviour.

He may have been unsettled by starting school, and is taking refuge in reverting to toddlerhood at home.
I expect he will soon come through this annoying stage, but calm firm handling will expedite it. Good luck!

I don't think you should punish tantrums tbh. You're punishing him for having feelings.

Also, if someone took my phone away because I'd not done the washing up or whatever I'd have a bloody tantrum too!

Starting school it's really really common for them to be exhausted and tantrum a lot more - also look up after school restraint collapse. They can't fully communicate how they feel at this age.

The best way is to calmly remove the opportunity for the unwanted behaviour if they won't do as asked eg jumping on sofa - move him out of room. Throwing ball inside - take ball away. Won't put shoes on - help put them on for him.

You can still set boundaries and hold firm without punishing him, and make sure you are still making time to have fun and laugh with him.

It's bloody hard though, just be thankful it's only started now!

It sounds like ds was tired before bed and didn't have much control over himself.

I find with my 4 year old that most tantrums can be (or could have been) prevented. Making sure he isn't hungry, that he understands expectations, that bedtime isn't too late are all important for us.

I also try to pay attention to where I tell him off; shoes is a common one and I agree with pp- if I give the instruction and stand with him to enforce he does it no bother. If I ask and then go to the loo it often doesn't happen. In that situation there's no point me telling him off - it just makes him upset and I get what I want quicker (his shoes on) if I support him rather than berate him when I get back.

It's frustrating because sometimes he's on the ball, happy to do what I ask etc and sometimes he's tired or would rather be playing trains.

I do always give warnings about consequences though; I wouldn't have upped the ante by saying "no TV" without warning first, even if the warning was "the tantrum stops or there's no TV". The only exception is physical violence eg hitting/shoving his 2yr brother. That has an immediate time out and a de-brief type thing (what led up to that? What could you have done instead? What will you try next time? Etc)

I do get your frustration and I think it's important to be firm but it all sounds quite stressy. The key is to keep it quite simple and keep any consequences very directly related to the action.

With the spitting noise I'd either have turned it into a game.
'oh Daddy, DS is making a very silly noise. I bet I can make an even louder noise of a train! CHOO CHOO! What about you?
I can make the noise of a VERY LOUD MONKEY!' etc until he stops doing the annoying thing

Or I might have said the noise was very annoying so if he wanted to keep making it he had to go into a different room because we didn't want to hear it

For the bedtime thing, in your DHs shoes I would have just shrugged. Maybe said, I know you're annoyed about having to wait but I'm changing the baby. If you want it, you wait for it.

And maybe a bit of distraction:

Ok I'm busy changing the baby but I think it'll take me 30 more seconds. I bet you can't run all the way from the living room to the fridge and back in that time! There's no way you can! Ok... GO!

My DS is the same age and quite non-stop, and DD is 2 and tantrumming like a rockstar so I'm getting a lot of practice in just now.