To ask you about schools with ‘alternative’ educational philosophies?

[peepeelongstocking]

Not really an AIBU, but I love reading about these schools. So far I’ve read about:

• A. S. Neill’s Summerhill
• Steiner/Waldorf schools
• the London Acorn school
• Sands
• Bedales
• New Forest small school (and other ‘small schools’)
• Montessori

Any other interesting ones? They’re my current obsession

Steppemum - the children taught by Suzuki do get taught to read music and my own children managed the transition very easily.

What I loved about it was that they were taught real tunes from the word go, starting off with the ‘twinkles’ which are bowing rhythms using twinkle twinkle little star. They also do something called playing down, which means the more advanced children joining in with the less advanced, until you end up with all those present playing along with the beginners. I will never forget standing in a concert hall watching several hundred children and young people joining in playing twinkle twinkle little star with the teeny kids at the front.

Suzuki philosophy was to try to replicate the natural process of language acquisition in terms of music. Parental involvement is key and my children were lucky enough to have a violin playing father who went to all their lessons and supervised practice. One thing that always made me laugh is the suzuki joke that your only have to practise on the days that you eat’. My children never saw the funny side of that, but they consider their violin playing as integral to their identity

@HumphreyCobblers

Steppemum - the children taught by Suzuki do get taught to read music and my own children managed the transition very easily.

What I loved about it was that they were taught real tunes from the word go, starting off with the ‘twinkles’ which are bowing rhythms using twinkle twinkle little star. They also do something called playing down, which means the more advanced children joining in with the less advanced, until you end up with all those present playing along with the beginners. I will never forget standing in a concert hall watching several hundred children and young people joining in playing twinkle twinkle little star with the teeny kids at the front.

Suzuki philosophy was to try to replicate the natural process of language acquisition in terms of music. Parental involvement is key and my children were lucky enough to have a violin playing father who went to all their lessons and supervised practice. One thing that always made me laugh is the suzuki joke that your only have to practise on the days that you eat’. My children never saw the funny side of that, but they consider their violin playing as integral to their identity

It sounds lovely. I have always thought it was an interesting idea.

My dd learned 2 instruments. Piano, she took conventional lessons with a teacher, and practice at home. But the other instrument was the cornet in the local brass band. You have your lesson just before the training band rehearse, so you are surrounded by players. As soon as you can follow a simple tune, you sit in with the training band. The training band is about 20% new learners and 80% people from the main band. Some main band players are there to improve, they can take a lead role in the training band, where they are a junior in the main band.
Some main band players are just there to help. Some help the new kids follow along in the music, and help them when they get stuck, some just provide a 'correct' music line as they play to help it sound OK.
Band members are all ages form 7-90.
It meant that from really early on they are playing in a real band and performing at real events. Not as a kid playing in school assembly type thing, but real tunes at an event, eg playing carols at the local turning on of Christmas lights. It was the most amazing experience, playing alongside those further along than you, but as an equal.
In some ways it sounds very similar to the Suzuki method. Being part of a playing community.

She gave up the piano after a year, it was boring. She is still playing in the band 10 years later, and considers herself to be part of the 'family'.

In terms of qualifications - many summer hill kids do get GCSEs. They finish at 17 so don’t do A levels. Most will go to college to do them though. There are certainly many who have been to university afterwards. It’s doesn’t stop you becoming a doctor or something similar.

Steiner schools, it’s worth remembering are essentially faith schools. So make sure you know what you’re signing up to.
Much more a fan of democratic schools personally.

Thank you to all of you for answering my questions. I dislike the way that schools have become exam factories, but it looks like some of these alternative schools aren't the answer, especially in the current climate.

There's the Heritage School near me. I do not know how alternative it is on a scale of Eton to Summerhill, but it sounds interesting.

I know someone whose children go to this school, which also sounds nice.

One of my ex-colleagues now teaches in a Steiner school and raves about it. But I can't get over some of the philosophy (especially as one of my DC is disabled ).

My DS1 was at a Steiner for the equivalent of year 1. I thought it would be creative, caring, lovely etc etc after a year at reception in a really terrible local primary where he struggled to settle.

OMG the mismanagement, the rigidity, the enabling of bullying, the lack of creativity was astonishing. They trade on the creative idea and it couldn't be further from the truth. Crafts are prescribed and done at specific times of development - always the same part of a specific year, and all the kids paintings and crafts look the same. Basically it's a quasi-cult 100 year old religious pedagogy that had some interesting ideas 100 years ago and by its very dogma nature never adapts to research and learning about the way children learn.

My DS was undiagnosed ADHD and vulnerable to bullying and he had a very hard time. They just let them get on with it.

On the other hand I've heard interesting things about the Small School in Hartland - not sure it's still a thing?

@Mackerella I'm also Cambridge based. My understanding is that the Heritage School is run along strict Christian lines. People whose children go there seem very positive about it.

Also can I add a positive end to my DSs story - after 6 months we moved him to the most amazing mainstream inner city primary school. Same demographic and funding as the first state primary but truly inspirational in how brilliant they were with my DS and all the other kids. They are producing great results academically but also manage to get a really properly creative curriculum - taking all the opportunites for working with locals RTS organisations and trips to theatres and artists in residence, and devising dance and music with the kids - so much so that I regularly cried at performances at the amazing was of it. This is what normal should be - it doesn't need to be ' alternative' it just needs to be caring, run by caring and creative people who believe what kids can achieve.

Not so easy to do in secondary though

Froebel is another ‘alternative’. There’s a school (primary) in Sussex.

An interesting alternative which no longer exists was the idea of open-air schooling. All lessons were taken outside and many were boarding schools so the children slept outside too (even in winter!). It was an approach to stop the rise of TB pre-WW2 and so most of them were run by councils as opposed to being private.

I think that lessons outside could be a really good thing now, it could be a lot of help with conditions like asthma and myopia. But maybe not in winter

steppemum, that band experience sounds amazing! Music SHOULD be fun and meaningful right from the beginning. That doesn’t preclude putting in some effort either, but effort that gets you to a good place as soon as is possible.

The problem I have with Summerhill is it’s all very well prioritizing happiness over qualifications bla bla bla but that only works if you’ve got enough family cash to insulate you from real life.

@Catgotyourbrain

I’m so glad things turned out well for your DS, and I agree that the default just needs to be a caring atmosphere. I think that the size of schools (along with the league table obsession) is what lets down secondary schools. I’m sure it’s hard for teachers to truly care for their students if they’re seeing 150+ different children per day.

@notafanoftheman

I agree. I think that when it was started it was realistic that a person could leave school with no qualifications and still get a job that would sustain them, but there’s no way now.

@peepeelongstocking

An interesting alternative which no longer exists was the idea of open-air schooling. All lessons were taken outside and many were boarding schools so the children slept outside too (even in winter!). It was an approach to stop the rise of TB pre-WW2 and so most of them were run by councils as opposed to being private.

I think that lessons outside could be a really good thing now, it could be a lot of help with conditions like asthma and myopia. But maybe not in winter

I was reading up on outdoor TB schools the other day to help a daughter with a project. Seems they were for students with TB as it was thought to alleviate symptoms. They didn’t tend to have a different educational ethos, just recreated the mainstream experience outdoors. Antibiotics/TB jab made them obsolete.

Forest schools, though, seem to be a good and well liked outdoor primary school options that’s become more popular over the last 10 - 20 years.

@notafanoftheman

The problem I have with Summerhill is it’s all very well prioritizing happiness over qualifications bla bla bla but that only works if you’ve got enough family cash to insulate you from real life.

I agree.

Outdoor schooling where I live would need an overhead canopy and extra lighting. It rains a lot here and with low light levels in winter basically you would need all the amenities of an indoor classroom but with no walls.

Michaela school is like the total opposite. I disagree with it but its so interesting...

I mean Summerhill’s ethos is better a happy bin man than a miserable banker but I suspect that the children of families who can fork out those fees don’t become bin men I find the downplaying of the importance of social capital which they all have in spades kind of intellectually dishonest.

This school. Our doesn't say but they have an alt approach to advanced math, teaching its practical application.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Academy_of_Mathematics_and_Science

I don't like Steiner. This is based on a friend's child who was treated horribly at one, I witnessed it and I told his mother I couldn't believe she let them treat him like that.

They also have some racist teachings.

@Chantelli probably all fee paying but there might be the odd exception, I don't know of one though

@Camomila I'm the one on BLW groups suggesting instead of trying to find the ultimate suction bowl you just give a normal cheap bowl and "condition" them not to throw it (I am away some are hard than I others)

Would love the be able to choose the type of school I send my kids to in the future but I have to have the money first

A friend's children go to a Waldorf school. They are obsessed with Harry Potter and can tell you what colour hat Madame Pomfrey was wearing in Book 3, but the youngest (8) couldn't choose a pound coin for the ice cream van. I told her to get a couple of pound coins from our money box, and she took the American quarters and pesos from our holiday leftovers. I was shocked.

Great thread OP!

I’ve heard a few negative Steiner experiences, mainly to do with bullying and racism not being dealt with by the schools. They always seem quite cult-like to me - as a pp said, it’s like “we value freedom, but only our way”

The only person I know who went to Summerhill is a very bright and thoroughly lovely Oxbridge grad, but from a very well-educated, wealthy, supportive family, so would probably have done equally well anywhere.

@notafanoftheman

The problem I have with Summerhill is it’s all very well prioritizing happiness over qualifications bla bla bla but that only works if you’ve got enough family cash to insulate you from real life.

That's true but then if you had the cash wouldn't you want your child to be happier and learn to self manage? I very much don't have the cash, so no axe to grind. But if I did, I'd send mine in a heartbeat.