Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To make complaint about 111

27 replies

Jakie7700 · 13/10/2020 19:30

Not sure if I should make a complaint regarding 111 or not so wanted advice if others would. I really do understand they must be under alot if pressure at the moment but surely that's no excuse to give poor/false info out.
Rang couple hours ago for advice regarding DC who is 18 months. DC has had a cold the last week or so but today started to be breathing a bit wheezy and slightly struggling she has none of the three main coronavirus symptoms. Did try ringing GP first but either constantly engaged or get accidently hung up on after listening to all the COVID advice message.
So 111 told me after explaining that as my DC has difficulty breathing to phone GP for advice and we have to isolate till she recieves a negative test as she has coronavirus symptoms. Firstly I said why do we have to isolate as breathing issues isn't one of the three reasons to isolate and I have already tried doctors but can't get through and they are due to close soon. She kept repeating we have to isolate and not to use public transport etc. She explained that breathing issues have always been a reason to isolate appartley surely this isn't correct advice? Also surely they should be giving current correct info on when and when you don't need to isolate. Otherwise if every symptom of any cold was a reason to isolate most people over winter would be isolating for most of it! Also did not give me any advice on what to do or where to go if DC breathing gets any worse. Thankfully DC seems a bit better at the moment so will just keep a close eye on her. If any worse will just take her to A&E

OP posts:
Lipz · 13/10/2020 19:32

Difficulty breathing is a symptom.

BritWifeinUSA · 13/10/2020 19:34

What were you wanting them to tell you?

Lipz · 13/10/2020 19:34

Most common symptoms:
fever
dry cough
tiredness

Less common symptoms:
aches and pains
sore throat
diarrhoea
conjunctivitis
headache
loss of taste or smell
a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes

Serious symptoms:
difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
chest pain or pressure
loss of speech or movement

RichardMarxisinnocent · 13/10/2020 19:35

@Lipz

Difficulty breathing is a symptom.
But not a symptom we are instructed to isolate and get a test for.
Original poster
Jakie7700 · 13/10/2020 19:36

Yes I know it can be a symptom as can a headache or aching muscles or a sore throat but neither of these reasons are given on the nhs website to self isolate it's only the three main symptoms of high temp, loss taste smell or new continuous cough. So my point I guess is why am I bring told to isolate her if the nhs website doesn't say too?

OP posts:
Charmatt · 13/10/2020 19:37

To be honest, apart from one call, I've found 111 to be useless. I was admitted to hospital in May and nearly died. I rang 111 in the night and they told me to ring my GP in the morning. My GP immediately told me to go to A&E. When I got there they admitted me and I was in hospital for 20 days. I'll have on going treatment for a year.

Don't get me wrong - the hospital and my GP surgery (both before and since admission) have been amazing with their care and treatment of me. However, the doctor told me that had I not come to A&E I would have died. The GP spoke to me on the phone and didn't hesitate to send me in. However, I told 111 exactly the same things but they were very dismissive.

Original poster
Jakie7700 · 13/10/2020 19:39

What I would of liked from them as I cannot get hold of my GP is whether I could of spoken to someone with medical advice to ask if she needs to be seen if so how as I cannot get advice from GP as that is what 111 is suppose to be for advice if you cannot get any from GP

OP posts:
Original poster
Jakie7700 · 13/10/2020 19:44

@Charmatt that's awful so sorry. Yes I found them to be no help at all today. Just doesn't sit well with me when they are giving out different advice than what nhs website does. No wonder why people are confused and when they should isolate!

OP posts:
Shxx · 13/10/2020 19:56

111 are not usually medically trained as far as I am aware. They tick off boxes on a computer and it will come up if the symptoms are serious

Original poster
Jakie7700 · 13/10/2020 20:00

When I have phoned them years ago for my older DC they will get a doctor or nurse to call you back and advise where to go or what to do so hence giving medical advice. Obviously they do not do that anymore so kind of pointless service if they just say go or call GP

OP posts:
Scweltish · 13/10/2020 20:01

Difficulty breathing in an infant should surely always be an a&e issue??

Delamalama · 13/10/2020 20:05

@Charmatt

To be honest, apart from one call, I've found 111 to be useless. I was admitted to hospital in May and nearly died. I rang 111 in the night and they told me to ring my GP in the morning. My GP immediately told me to go to A&E. When I got there they admitted me and I was in hospital for 20 days. I'll have on going treatment for a year.

Don't get me wrong - the hospital and my GP surgery (both before and since admission) have been amazing with their care and treatment of me. However, the doctor told me that had I not come to A&E I would have died. The GP spoke to me on the phone and didn't hesitate to send me in. However, I told 111 exactly the same things but they were very dismissive.

The exact same thing happened to me. If I had listened to the advice off 111 I'd be dead now.

I'm still pissed off at them as the symptoms I had were so bloody obvious as to what was wrong with me.

Coffeecak3 · 13/10/2020 20:09

@Charmatt it’s worrying isn’t it.
My adult dn had been poorly for a few weeks. He was given antibiotics for a sore throat but couldn’t swallow them and was severely fatigued. His wife rang 111 and was told to tell him not to be a baby.
She took him to a &e where he was diagnosed with chronic myeloid leukaemia!

alfreds · 13/10/2020 20:13

Difficulty in breathing is an a&e issue. Please don't leave it any longer, children can go down hill so quickly.

Prestel · 13/10/2020 20:20

YANBU OP. You rang 111 for medical advice and help and got fobbed off with confusing covid policy advice instead of what you should have got which was guidance of how to access appropriate medical care for an 18 month old with breathing difficulties out of hours. I would have expected you to get a medical professional call back for something like that, maybe a chat with a nurse over what to keep an eye out for and when to seek urgent care. I've never found 111 as good as the old NHS Direct service run by the local primary care trust tbh and it seems to be getting worse with the extra pressures with covid.

Original poster
Jakie7700 · 13/10/2020 20:59

Gosh some of your experiences with 111 sound awful! Thankfully DC seems a bit better but will be keeping a very close eye on through the night not sure I will be getting any sleep and will have no worries about taking straight to A&E if DC gets worse.

Yes that is what I would of expected to speak to a medical professional for how to access care for DC without having to go to A&E during a pandemic. I suppose I have two issues one being the false info about isolating which annoys me as I think no wonder so many people are confused about covid rules but also that 111 should be helping people especially at times we are in when you can't reach your GP to access medical care for a child and they wonder why people just rock up at A&E

OP posts:
Writerandreader · 13/10/2020 21:39

Please watch your little one. My 5 year old was breathing fast I didn't treat it seriously as had dealt with many sicknesses before. My neighbour who is a doctor happened to pop by said breathing fast or with difficulty go straight to a and e. She was able to talk still so I didn't think serious. She had severe pneumonia in both lungs developed sepsis the next day thank god we were on a ward by then

Charmatt · 13/10/2020 21:42

Thank you - thankfully the hospital were fantastic and my GP can't do enough for me.
I agree that NHS Direct was much better. I rang them when my son was 2 and had croup. I had no idea what it was and they were great. The phoned an ambulance for me and really helped us while it arrived. They didn't mess about or avoid responsibility that time.

babygroups · 13/10/2020 21:46

If your small child has difficulty breathing then they need to go to A&E!

Original poster
Jakie7700 · 14/10/2020 05:08

Well little one started to have wheezing again about just before midnight so took to A&E. DC have chest infection and needed antibiotics and being kept in for night for observation. Really angry as A&E said DC should of been made a out of hours appt at the bare minimum and no we do not have to isolate as she does not have the main self isolate symptoms. Obviously is DC did develop one of those symptoms we would have to.
Just glad DC is in good hands as hospital have been amazing. Bloody 111 is a waste of time will not even bother to ring them ever again!

OP posts:
Charmatt · 14/10/2020 07:47

I'm so sorry you've been through this. I hope you are both ok. It's so disappointing to see 111 consistently letting down patients and the NHS. Well done for trusting your instincts. X

Florencex · 14/10/2020 07:55

I voted YANBU before reading your update which vindicates your questioning of the very poor and lazy advice you were given. You would think covid is the only illness people can get these days.

I personally wouldn’t bother complaining, but I wouldn’t use 111 again, well I never have and I wouldn’t waste my time either.

Doingitaloneandproud · 14/10/2020 08:02

That's bad that they are just looking out for Covid but I can't fault my experiences with them. When my son had a seizure I had a nurse call me back in less than 5 minutes and an ambulance blue lighted. Any breathing issues I would have just taken straight to A&E, even with Covid around.
Hope your DC feels better ASAP

Original poster
Jakie7700 · 14/10/2020 09:10

Thank you all for your responces. Probably won't make a complaint as I doubt it will do any good tbh. Just be aware that obviously 111 in some cases are giving out incorrect self isolate advice but more worrying unless you have COVID do not seem to be bothered about helping with accessing medical care for other illnesses. I have been sat here most of the night thinking what would happen to someone's DC who would not go to A&E because 111 didn't seem to think it warranted medical care and just didn't want to bother anyone or were worried about going to a hospital during covid.
Makes you realise that so many people with serious illnesses will be missed both as out of hours and GP access seems very poor during this pandemic. Nice to hear though that not everyone has had a bad experience with 111.
Little one seems better this morning and doctors say may be able to go home later on today.

OP posts:
HamsterHolder · 14/10/2020 09:34

Glad you got the right support in the end.

You were told to isolate because of the answers you gave the call taker, they are just filling in a flow chart of questions and reading the advice it tells them to give word for word and are not allowed to deviate. You can follow the exact same flowchart online and get to the outcome recommended.

You can be referred for a gp/ nurse/ paramedic callback from 111 and receive personalised advice but this is only generally done if the flow chart outcome recommends it. The service can be so very overloaded at times that they will not accept further referrals for call back.

I would recommend the nhs choices website as it has excellent advice and information regards a wide variety of symptoms, from reassurance to recognising a serious illness that requires a&e or 999. It really is excellent.

111 can't win though, telephone triage is very difficult and there are not enough resources to see everyone face to face. Working on the Ambulance Service i often see it go wrong the other way- blue light response to a house with two cars on drive, to see a child with "wheeze and severe difficulty breathing" which translates to a cough for x days otherwise well and running about the house playing with siblings, patents saying they just want him checking out- not what a blue light emergency ambulance is for. (Just to be even clearer these jobs will code as a cat2 so will take priority over for instance -child hit by car, obvious leg deformity and minor bleeding, breathing normally and concious. That typically codes as cat3).