High Earners on MN?

[BitOfFun]

How? The actual leader of my county council doesn't earn more than £100K- where and what are all these super-maxed out occupations? I genuinely don't understand how mumsnetters (often relatively young) access these magic jobs I've never heard of.

YABU- they are there for the taking, you just made poor choices

YANBU- people here are very creative and there's an outside chance they may be lying exaggerating.

Good points there. It is all relative. I have always tried to keep my parents' post-0war (and WWII) rationing mentality and that accords with my not liking waste and eco views of the 1970s too. If you can keep being careful with money even when you are better off rather than continously spending more and more then it's better.

Also some on lower incomes think you keep £70k or £100. In fact the more you earn very large chunks go in tax and national insurance (never mind 9% graduate tax for some) so in fact the net income although obviously higher than someone on benefits is not quite as high as is sometimes thought.

Absolutely @Xenia! After taxes, pensions, childcare, students loans etc it’s not a huge amount that comes out the other side! We only have one car for example that we were given when my grandma couldn’t drive any more. How on earth people afford a car on finance blows my mind!

The choices we make start in childhood, but those who missed out first time around can catch up.

Jesus, you really are full of shit.

You think the child being raised by abusive or drug addicted parents has the choices? You think the child born in to abject poverty has choices?

Sure a vanishingly small number of children in those cases make it, usually because they have a non familial adult who goes above and beyond for them, but to pretend that anyone can do it means you have no idea how people live. It is all too easy to dismiss privilege, but that’s because you have it.

It’s not about lowering people’s expectations, it’s about not simply suggesting if they just work hard and make good choices they will get there. That in itself is doing them a disservice.

Part of the problem is language. No one on the thread has said anyone can make it. All we are saying is that most teenagers can take certain steps that are likely to increase their chances and they should not give up and feel hopeless. Those of us saying people have some power and agency are not "full of s hit" but keen to help the less fortunate. It is why places like London have mentors going into schools to try to help those in difficult situations. It is not some awful wicked thing to try to give teenagers hope. It is a moral good.

I agree no one should say work hard and you will do well. I agree. So I suspect there is really at heart no disagreement on the thread at all. However working hard and choosing high paid work is doing to help many teenagers out of poverty. My mother grew up in NE England (as did I). Her father was killed when she was 4 months old and there were not the benefits we have today for widows. She did well because she passed the 11+ and became a teacher which was a big achievement from her background. However as it is so left wing the NE abolished the grammar schools in about 1970 thus removing one route of poverty for children there, albeit for what they thought were reasons of fairness (ie let us give everyone a bad education so it is all nice and fair you could say....)

It’s interesting reading comments on this thread in conjunction with the “am I the tea bitch” thread where a poster is complaining that she has to make tea for the boss, a task that was articulated in interview as part of the job description.

The thread is full of people saying do it badly and you’ll never be asked again

I think not working to rule has been one of the most important behaviours in my success. Early on I realised that the people that are kept around are the people that make life easier for others.

@PegasusReturns that’s interesting, I read the tea bitch one but didn’t have anything to add, my initial thought was that it was a bit demeaning and I sympathised for the OP. But actually you’re right. I tend to make my boss tea while simultaneously moaning (in a professional, diplomatic manner) about things I don’t like and want changed. So there is definitely a forum where sucking it up and making tea can be beneficial. I’m working my way up through the ranks in my organisation nicely!

[quote ToryAldi]**@cherrypavola* I never said it was impossible I disputed that ridiculous suggestion but just for you I'll repeat what I said about making it -That's ridiculous of course it's possible - you'll have a better chance if you are better, worker harder, white, male, middle/upper class, hetrosexual(usually) and be luckier than everyone else - but that is not impossible!*
You live your life - you don't call it luck, why would you?...you can't think beyond your own existence, that's pretty common.[/quote]
So I am very aware I am now in the top 1% of earners nationally. I come from a poor working class community in the Midlands. I worked hard to get where I am, but in my experience, most people at my level got there by being good but also having very strong networks. These come from a variety of sources, but public school networks are strong and if you have family members who are already in professions then you have a head start. I do not agree that you make your own luck, if you are male, white, middle class and privately educated with professional relatives you have a massive head start on an equally bright children in poorer areas. In my organisation I am leading on diversity which aims to address some of these issues. Mentoring is an important part of this process, as are blind CVs and making sure that internships are properly controlled. As part of this process we are setting up links with schools in areas where we have offices. I have met some extremely bright teenagers as part of this process, but often they have limited spaces to study (in some cases no heated room to do homework in), no access to laptops, and post 16 have to take on part time jobs often for long hours which can interfere with study. It is fairly obvious that these circumstances provide significant barriers to progression in society.

@ReeseWitherfork

Yes that’s actually another good point: making cups of tea or grabbing lunch meant a couple of minutes with the big boss. They got to know my face and like me which I’m sure lead to other opportunities.

I delivered papers to a very senior colleagues home one evening as she lived near me and the courier run had gone for day. She was having a glass of wine and invite me in. She eventually became my mentor.

I think your first job out of school or university can be make or break in a way, or certainly can make a difference to how you progress or how quickly you progress.

If your first experience of work is somewhere that is positive, where training is offered, where you are encouraged to learn new things, to expand your experience and to progress, you will almost certainly progress if you choose to.

If your first experience of work is somewhere that work is guarded like a secret, where you're not allowed to step outside your box or learn a new skill because that's having ideas above your station, your confidence can be crushed. I know with hindsight that that is what happened to me. I was trapped for ten years in a really terrible environment, where my employer more or less owned me. My working hours were long, pay was low, but the responsibility was huge. Our contracts were very restrictive - not allowed to take a second job or even do training or voluntary work without permission, so no chance to look outside of work to build a CV that would be attractive to another employer.

My years of unsuccessful job hunting crushed me, despite glowing appraisals in the job I was actually doing. I genuinely was left feeling that higher pay and job satisfaction just wasn't available for someone like me, because that's what I spent my twenties being told - that I had ideas above my station and should be grateful to even have a job.

@PegasusReturns

It’s interesting reading comments on this thread in conjunction with the “am I the tea bitch” thread where a poster is complaining that she has to make tea for the boss, a task that was articulated in interview as part of the job description.

The thread is full of people saying do it badly and you’ll never be asked again

I think not working to rule has been one of the most important behaviours in my success. Early on I realised that the people that are kept around are the people that make life easier for others.

This is so true. When I came out of university I really thought I’d be involved in big projects from the off, but actually, with a lot of work / projects there is so much junior admin type stuff to do. If you have a good attitude of just doing what needs to be done, not what you think you should be doing, that goes a long way and leads to further opportunities once you’ve shown you’re competent and a team player etc.

Those with egos who say they’re “not paid” to help out with printing / filing etc are just left out of the big and interesting projects cos if they won’t help out with the small stuff, they won’t be trusted with the big stuff.

they do exist. it will depend on location, ability and luck. i'm unemployed with two primary school aged children. my sister is unemployed too. both our husbands are £90k plus earners. brother in law was a medicine under graduate but moved into a totally different job in sales and marketing for an international company and earns over £120k as basic pay, then has car allowance which is equivalent to another salary for a minimum wage worker and other benefits.

ive never been paid more than £30k as a full time solicitor.

some amazing advice on here too.

When a poster asks for job suggestions, they often get told things like "work in the school office hun xx" or "what about sticking some buttons on a canvas?" When people want to retrain, the most thrilling suggestion is usually "social worker." There seems to be a dearth of aspiration. Not everyone wants some of the lowest paid roles in society.

It's been said that men choose jobs for their salary potential, and women choose the ones that 'help people' or that they'll enjoy. So that needs to really change, otherwise you get women like yourselves wondering how on earth anyone can earn over £25k without being a liar.

They're not lying. It's just another world - one where we choose salary over 'part-time' and 'school hours'.

Yes it's going to involve some childcare costs or whatever, but work a proper full-time job, and aim for something with a high salary.

@PegasusReturns

It’s interesting reading comments on this thread in conjunction with the “am I the tea bitch” thread where a poster is complaining that she has to make tea for the boss, a task that was articulated in interview as part of the job description.

The thread is full of people saying do it badly and you’ll never be asked again

I think not working to rule has been one of the most important behaviours in my success. Early on I realised that the people that are kept around are the people that make life easier for others.

That’s a really good point.

I spent this morning organising online meetings. It’s not my job but the person who was supposed to do it is sick today so it was all hands on deck to get this done so I’ve been checking calendars and emailing zoom details. It’s a small team and everyone else is tied up but me and another team member were able to free up some time (by postponing a call we were to have with each other!) so we got stuck in.

The alternative is to not do it, push the meetings out until the administrator is back to arrange them, but by then we’re days behind which is likely to cost €10,000s in terms of knock-on delays.

Having a think about where I work and all of the C-suite execs are of the sleeve-rolling-up variety. Our CFO makes a great coffee

@essexmum777
“I think it is about expectations, set in school as well - in my school most children were expected to go and work in local factories, not become professionals/business owners, that was a very long time ago though so no idea if that has changed.”

This is a real gap in my opinion and why someone from an average background really needs to be extra bright and quick compared to someone with a wealthier background. We did a careers day at high school which involved a (supposedly serious) quiz which helped determine which career would suit you. I got window dresser . This is for an A grade student. There was not one piece of useful guidance in terms of career paths and the qualifications and experience you’d need to get there at our local school. DH who went to an independent got lots of this kind of support.

When a poster asks for job suggestions, they often get told things like "work in the school office hun xx" or "what about sticking some buttons on a canvas?”

This is so true. 10+ years ago I had the choice of two different opportunities and had also just had my last baby.

The first was in my comfort zone, PT no travel. The second was a real stretch. I posted on MN about it and to a person I was advised to take the easier role.

I didn’t and that opportunity literally transformed my life.

My school where most people did not go to university did send us to the Newcastle careers service and recently I scanned my report from there from the 1970s so I remember what it said. I mentioned solicitor (as I wanted to earn a lot of money even at 14!!!) but the lady also suggested social worker and librarian and teacher and she wrote those along with solicitor on the form.

I can understand the parents (often second generation Indian immigrants) at my children's schools where I used to man the law careers stand taking their children solely to medicine, law and accountancy stalls because the parents knew professional careers are better paid.

On the helping to make the teat point when I got my first job in a law firm in 1982 I was told not to tell anyone I could touch type (I had used my life savings to buy a type writer when I was 15 in the 1970s on which I typed 50,000 word books - none ever published. I still have the typewriter). I had learned from a book from the Newcastle library. The reason was we just beyond the `1970 Equal pay act and the risk was if a company knew you could type and were female you might get shunted into just typing. (Obviously today every types even very senior people so whole new world). In my second year the new boss asked me to go out to buy his sandwiches but I didn't do it very well (probably deliberately) and he stopped asking me. (He was the one who used to take long lunch breaks in a pub playing pool and then have calls on speakerphone (we shared an office) with his wife with the new baby at home complaining how late he got home - he used to delay going home until the child was in bed).

If you start a thread in here saying what jobs pay the most, you will probably get told you need to do something you will enjoy etc etc

The reality is most people work for money so why not do a job that pays well

One of my friends, spent 7-8 years in full time further education and works in a call center
On a low salary is very bitter at the world is is always saying how if your from working class background you can never get on, you will never get chances
How the wealthy are so selfish and greedy
Perched on about people shouldn’t be allowed to buy buy to let’s etc

Yet main some bad choices courses wise
Courses that don’t lead to professional qualifications

The first was in my comfort zone, PT no travel. The second was a real stretch. I posted on MN about it and to a person I was advised to take the easier role.

Yes! I've been shouted down so many times on similar threads, when I say that the more stretching role sounds more interesting and will certainly be very beneficial for your career opportunities and income.

Because what about the precious moments with your darling children who are only small once (doesn't matter if OP has teenagers) and a mother should only have a little job that fits around school hours and everybody else's needs but her own. And money isn't everything, you greedy cow!

I think the internet has opened up a world of knowledge that should, theoretically, provide information on what jobs people do. When I was at school, pre-internet, I had no idea that jobs such as human resources existed, or that you could become an accountant through on the job study and professional qualifications and that a degree was not essential. I didn't know that there were qualifications outside of university degrees and that they were not some sort of second rate option. Our school wanted us all to go to university (and most people did) and presumably they really didn't want us to know that there were other options.

Career advice in my rural Irish Catholic girls’ school in the 90s was pretty straightforward.

If you were a good student, you were advised to go for teaching or nursing.

Weaker students were instructed to take typing courses.

Weaker students who happened to be attractive were asked to consider cabin crew.

Thankfully, there was a really good private career guidance counselor in town and he’d do a lot of research around courses etc so he set a lot of people on the right track.

Though you needed parents who could afford his services, and would be willing to fund it.

Although my mother's choice of teacher at her Catholic state grammar school in the 1940s was pretty good as that was the route that meant she met my student doctor father and hey would work with 2 professional careers full time for 10 years before having children so they could afford to buy a house etc.

Vodsel, that sounds like Cornwall. My school was unashamedly academic and I was there on a funded place, so they advised me towards law and aiming for the Bar (I didn't fancy law as a degree, did PPE) but university did take me into the world of financial magazines and thence into investor relations, corporate communications and B2B marketing.

I went to Oxbridge and have a masters but I’m still a standard rate taxpayer, clearly I have gone very wrong somewhere if there are all these highly paid jobs out there and no one offered me one

@VodselForDinner

Career advice in my rural Irish Catholic girls’ school in the 90s was pretty straightforward.

If you were a good student, you were advised to go for teaching or nursing.

Weaker students were instructed to take typing courses.

Weaker students who happened to be attractive were asked to consider cabin crew.

Thankfully, there was a really good private career guidance counselor in town and he’d do a lot of research around courses etc so he set a lot of people on the right track.

Though you needed parents who could afford his services, and would be willing to fund it.

Same here. Though I’m not Irish or Catholic and a bit older than you. I had no idea that most of the big money careers existed. DH, OTOH, went to a much more ambitious school and they were much more broad spectrum on the careers advice and options. I got better results in my exams (across the board, arguably I am more academically able than he is) than he did but has had a much more impressive career and has a much higher earning potential than I will likely ever have.