Give people 100% of their wages if they're forced to close

[Marg33t]

How are people on nmw supposed to live on 66% of wages. All the council leaders in the north are rightly outraged at how unfair this is!

@RationalOne are you for real?! I've followed everything so far, my business faces closure if that's what's announced on monday, and it's my own fault?!

I'm in a local lockdown in a northern city, the spike is absolutely caused by students returning to university, we have 4 major unis in my area. Not to do with hardworking people being sloppy, how ignorant!

So the areas where many people have been sloppy with SD, being careful, not mixing and so the virus has run rampant (not necessarily the ones who will be unable to work though) should be given full pay to sit at home ..... NO way!

I'm in a local lockdown area. The increase in cases that led to us going into lockdown has largely been attributed to schools going back and people who were working from home because of childcare issues heading back into their workplaces now the DC are back in school/wrap around care. It has also been attributed to the arrival of many thousands of students from all corners of the country - Newcastle upon Tyne has two universities and their collective student body has had over 1000 cases in the last week.

devildeepbluesea

From what I’ve googled, it seems that you could still claim UC whilst on furlough which presumably is still the case when the new scheme starts in November.

I can’t find anything to the contrary but happy to be corrected.

@Chocobohead you must be near me, Durham & Sunderland unis are also adding to our high numbers although they have been nowhere near as high as Newcastle & Northumbria. I live and work just a few miles out of the city centre, no cases in our local primaries and only a couple in local secondaries. The idea that we deserve it because we've been 'sloppy' is disgusting!

UC is all good and well if you rent and have kids but not much good for anyone else!

I think it is perfectly fair - compared to my friend who pays herself a dividend from her Ltd company on an annual basis from profits after tax, largely due to the fact her business is seasonally busy and it's easier rather than keep having to alter the ££ she pays herself depending on how her month has been. She's not been able to claim a penny from the government, luckily she got a part time job to tide herself over.

@lanbro the vast majority of people I see are complying with the rules and have been from the start. The area I live has a very "active" vocal residents group and anyone throwing parties or being sloppy would very quickly find themselves being passively-aggressively shamed.

But we can’t keep bailing people out. One thing I really hope people learn from this pandemic is to plan for change and not live right on the edge of what they can afford. I know so many people that have mortgaged themselves to the max on 2salaries, 2 cars, 3 kids, foreign holidays wardrobes full of clothes, kids clubs every night but little in savings. We’ve always tried to keep essential expenditure to No more than one salary.

All v nice when things are going well but it stands to reason that things might go downhill several times in your lifetime, there’s a circular pattern of rise and fall and rebuild in all societies both over the short term and long term.

There’s work out there, you just have to adapt, learn new skills, take a pay cut, move areas, have a long commute, work different hours. Some jobs have gone permanently after this pandemic, we shouldn’t keep flogging a dead horse.

People have been ignoring the environmental consequences of having large families for years now the immediate impact might stop people heading this way.

The government has wasted billions paying companies who could have covered salaries to furlough their staff. I’m hoping for a massive hike in corporation tax to recoup this. Back to 31% for large companies.

Too much has been spent on people who didn’t need the help so it’s reduced the funds available for those who do need help.

I was on 80% and it wasn't too bad because I didn't pay travel, socialising (nowhere to go), could make lunch at home and didn't pay for after-school club.

So for some it will be ok.. those on lower incomes will struggle though. I

I love threads like this.

0% logic 100% entitlement

EVERYTHING SHOULD BE CLOSED BECAUSE OF COVID!!
EVERYONE SHOULD BE PAID 100%
THE GOV SHOULD PRINT MONEY TO COVER THE DEBT.

... all fun and games until a loaf of bread costs £55 because they’re printed so much money and simultaneously tanked the economy to keep people happy.

Idiots in 2020- PAY US 100%
Idiots in 2024- IF THEY THINK WE’RE GONNA PAY 60% TAX THEYRE INSANE. LETS RIOT! WHY CANT I FIND A JOB? THE GOV HAVE RUINED EVERYTHING!
I assume those who think like this read the daily mail (if they can read at all) !

As others have said, 66% sounds decent compared to the 20% that most people in my industry (self-employed) are entitled to. And those are the lucky ones that ARE entitled to anything - I know quite a few who started too late for eligibility.

I am on a combination of national minimum wage and universal credit. My kids are adult and so I don’t get any child component.

It was fine during my couple of months on furlough. They are not sanctioning people on furlough.

It was in the Guardian the other day that the cost of pandemic wage support is £1600 per household. We have to be using that support sensibly. There is no reason to pay lots of people 100% when we already have universal credit in place.

I don’t know much about UC, can you claim for it if you are made redundant but own your own house?

If you are made redundant and get a large redundancy pay out, you may not be eligible for universal credit.

Universal credit doesn’t help with a mortgage for the first 39 weeks, but then banks will wait a long time before they try and get you out of your property. It isn’t that you miss a couple of mortgage payments and get kicked out on to the streets.

Those on lower incomes will struggle. As it stands atm it's bars and restaurants that will have to close in some areas.

If that happens then those affected will be able to claim UC to top up their wages. However I do think they should also be supported in finding alternative employment. The hospitality trade is going to suffer massively for months, many were hanging on by their finger nails anyway and we can't keep supporting jobs that won't exist.

My DD lost her job and was told she was ineligible for UC. She got no redundancy payment. Her job came with housing, so she also lost her housing. She was entitled to nothing, I’m not sure why.

For those facing local lockdowns in areas where rates are rising it feels particularly unfair as we were locked down when infection rates were high particularly in London but low where we live and now rates are rising here and the generous 90% is no longer affordable, we are suddenly expected to be able to manage

Where else in the world is giving more?

Daisy, there are many possible reasons why, but it is often worth reapplying because her situation might now be different.

One thing I really hope people learn from this pandemic is to plan for change and not live right on the edge of what they can afford.

I kind of agree with this as it stands. The trouble is, have you not noticed the massive disconnect between wages and living costs, especially housing costs, nowadays? There is no redundancy in the system and there has not been since house prices quadrupled overnight 20 years ago and wages did not follow.

It's unrealistic to expect most of us to have the kind of luxury you describe as 'not living close to the edge', and it is not simply the fault of normal working people that the economy cannot provide it and has not been able to provide it for over 20 years!

@Letsgetgoing123 Universal credit will only cover interest not the repayment part of mortgage.

If richer groups didn't want to "bail people out" now, then they should have been providing an economy that actually works with jobs that actually pay and provide the kind of security that they did in the past!

We are now out of choices.

One thing I really hope people learn from this pandemic is to plan for change and not live right on the edge of what they can afford.

We did! But fuck me, there are limits. No work since March and no end in sight, there's only so far savings can take you.

We don't want a handout, we want to work. But its seems utterly unfair to make it illegal to earn a living and also not offer help.

And no i never voted Tory and for UC, which as home owners with a mortgage would be useless anyway.

Yes @Ihatefish I tend to agree. We need a proper, means tested, benefits for those properly in need. People should be treated with dignity, no children should be in poverty. I would happily pay much higher taxes for that along with proper safeguards for renters so people in need aren’t exploited.

But the government support shouldn’t be there for those who have been stupid enough not to plan for the future who were financially able to. Those who got 95% mortgages, two cars on finance etc - they should be forced to downsize first. I have made a lot of careful financial decisions. I never allowed myself the luxury of being a SAHM, I have enough money in savings to last for a long long time if I lost my job tomorrow. I wouldn’t expect a penny from the government. It’s just wrong that this support is universally available. This isn’t free money and let’s be clear it won’t be the super rich who will be picking up the bill!

Reality is how do you justify 67% pay for someone on £60,000 when it also mean 2/3 income for those on minimum wage.

The other reality is that people have a certain expectation of lifestyle and many have lived beyond their means and raked up huge debts which now mean they are in real trouble.

Should people who have budgeted wisely and havent built up those debts, bail out those who are in financial trouble? There are many who saved and were sensible with money who dont qualify for UC so it makes it even harder to justify.

There are no easy answers here. There is a lot of resentment all around. People who are still working know they are paying for people to sit on their arse. Fine if its minimum wage, but it doesn't go down so well if its £60,000.

Long term we do need to address household debt, the cost of housing and a poor culture of saving.

And in the interim the idea that everyone should get 100% if they are closed down is politically not an option for this reason.

I think it raises the question of a national minimum income being drawn up.

I think we will start to see an end of the expectation of an annual foreign holiday going forward too. Its simply going to beyond the means of many and thats going to be normalised.

I believe that Germany has only offered 70% full wage so its not a bad offer especially if the alternative is universal credit alone.

This doesn't make it any easier if you are the one up shit creek but i do think 100% wages for everyone is hugely unrealistic.