Halloween at school

[Ganainmlondon]

We are very disappointed as our child's teacher wanted to have a Halloween celebration of sorts in school as she realised the children were so disappointed that they couldn't trick or treat or have a party with their friends. Our West London school said no as they argued costumes would be a Covid health and safety risk but now they are doing an international language day instead and the kids can dress up as something to do with South America. I'm all for learning more about the world, especially languages but it doesn't mean much to the children and to have T&T at school with their friends would really be something to look forward to in these dark times. Not sure why the school feels costumes are ok for one event in the week and not another. I wish the school would think about what the children need in these times to feel happy and normal.

It's not nothingness though is it? It's an old festival that has been adapted like other celebrations over time. Celebrating those that stem from nature based beliefs is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Yes there is mass marketing, but there is with other celebrations too. You can avoid that.

Well it sort of is nothingness unless you still believe the barriers between earth and heaven get thin in the autumn. Not sure that’s something to celebrate, to be honest. Dressing up as pumpkins isn’t very likely to scare away ghouls.

@TW2013

Dress as a skeleton with a mask representing the Day of the Dead, very South American.

Day of the Dead is not South American. It’s Mexican. Festival of the Dead is in some South American regions but that’s over August, September, October, or November depending on the harvest.

It predates heaven. And there's more to it than that. The whole pagan calender is bulit around the seasons. Works for me.

@Wearywithteens

Go with the Guatemalan version then! 🙄

Guatemalans fly kites as a way to communicate with those who have died, and then fix things in th drown that may have even damaged over the year. Very different festival.

@MindyStClaire

Tbf I’m not sure that either traditional Samhain or All Hallows’ Eve activities are exactly what the OP had in mind. It’s quite removed from the modern, more commercialised celebration.

I'd love to see what your Christmas looks like.

This is all so weird. Halloween was celebrated in my Catholic schools growing up in Ireland. If you can't manage to be as fun as an Irish Catholic school where hair bobbins could only be blue, navy or white...

I don't think we disagree. I just think that trying to win round the Christian parents who would object by claiming that anything that might happen at a primary school halloween celebration is a Christian festival is clutching at straws slightly. And anything that might pass isn't going to be what the other children & parents had in mind.

The school are in a difficult position here. It's not an after school disco that anyone who doesn't want to go to can just avoid. I can see why the HT has said no, although she could have been more honest about the reason. I'm not quite sure how it got mentioned to parents and children before it was run past the SLT tbh.

@Flipflops85

You all sound really tolerant and respectful of other’s beliefs 😳 I love it when people spout about teaching tolerance, but then spend the next 10 minutes slagging off Christian beliefs!

It’s not inclusive if all children can’t take part. If it risked not including everyone, then I understand why the school said no. It’s not a kill joy, it’s recognising not all kids can do it. They can’t force a party on families!

Halloween is not Christian. All Hallows’ eve precedes All Saints day. All Hallows’ eve is not represented by the modern Halloween. My church do a light party, with disco lights, sweets, glow sticks and brightly coloured clothes. We’re not offended by witch outfits - have no issues with room on the broom 😂 and my kids have trick or treated a few times. Some kids at my church are not allowed though, and we just respect it, and do things our way. My kids are flexible, respect everyone, and don’t say something is stupid because we do things differently.

So should schools not do anything for Christmas or Easter because some children can't take part?

@Beautiful3 please educate yourself. Dark forces are nothing to do with the pagan belief, the sun and crops dye away and spirits coming closer and the winter rising from his sleep.

Also trick or treat is American the traditional term is Guising as you disguised yourself so spirits couldn’t find you.

Thinking back to when my DC was at primary school , they celebrated Halloween in as much as having an after school Halloween disco where the children dressed up. I can see this as being quite different to having a Halloween event as part of the school day . A fun event for children but not impinging on curriculum or sensitivities of anyone who didn't want to be involved . I guess they can't do that now though .

Just arrange something nice for your own family. I liked the ideas posted on another thread where in some places they were doing pumpkin trails as an alternative to trick and treating .

@BluebellsGreenbells

Yes, the teachers do have a lot to do and could do with some levity themselves

So a whole day of celebrations takes no effort at all? The fun just keeps going all by itself. Games, food, music, colouring, arts and crafts.

All the mess and clearing up?

Love how some parents dictate how teachers should spent their day/time organising stuff for kids as if it just magically happens

Well said.

The OP is ridiculous.

Halloween has no place in school imo and in any case school has enough to cope with just now.

So should schools not do anything for Christmas or Easter because some children can't take part?

Halloween is hardly in the same category (and many schools have made Christmas and Easter celebrations inclusive), it's not a 'big' celebration. Only in fairly recent years has anything much been made of it in most of England and there was never anything done at school.

The Scots have a particular traditional celebration at that time.

Is it really that big a deal? Halloween wasn't ever something we "did" as a child and I don't really know anyone who did. Not because of some religious disapproval but just becuase it wasnt really on our radar.

Even now with small DC I only know one other parent who has ever made a particular thing of it.

@BashfulClam thank you for your insult. I shall pass this onto every mormon, jehovah's wittness and Jewish person I meet. You sound very respectful of other peoples faiths, an utter delight!

@jessstan1

So should schools not do anything for Christmas or Easter because some children can't take part?

Halloween is hardly in the same category (and many schools have made Christmas and Easter celebrations inclusive), it's not a 'big' celebration. Only in fairly recent years has anything much been made of it in most of England and there was never anything done at school.

The Scots have a particular traditional celebration at that time.

But is Scotland there are still people who don't let their kids participate. And the poster didn't say anything about Halloween being new, just that it's not inclusive.

I'm 53, our Halloween in primary school and at Brownies (held in a Catholic Church) consisted of bobbing for apples and other apple themed games. I can remember bean bag games using orange bean bags. We didn't shield children as much and we probably knew too much about the witch trials. Halloween and Harvest festival was looked forward to.

Considering a lot of posters think this is an American invention, it shows that it wouldn't hurt to cover it in school.

School is about social and emotional development and I think school should be making up for some of the bits that are missing.

Goodness, what a lot of miseries. We celebrated Halloween at my Catholic primary school in the 1970s, apple bobbing, bats and witches crafts, Mildred Hubble and this song. It was all very exciting and atmospheric.

We even celebrated Guy Fawkes night which involved the burning of an actual Catholic.

We were not traumatised by any of this.

“Halloween is celebrating dark forces”.

FFS

Día de Muertos is more rooted in central and southern Mexico, though has spread north in recent years and is celebrated - or holidays very similar to it in concept of remembering the dead are celebrated - throughout many parts of Latin America and the diaspora from there with many regional variations around the same time. It could work for South America, but they'd need to pick versions that work.

Not all kids like ghosts and ghouls (not all kids like Christmas or Easter or sweets either) and, much like with Día de Muertos, there are a lot of differences in how and why people celebrate it. For some it's more connected to Samhain traditions, for some it's a very Christian celebration with wide variations between different denominations, for some it's just modern commercial fun, for some it's not really something they do or like, and more besides.

For some kids the kind of celebration being described in school wouldn't be "normal" or "happy". There is no one variant that's "British culture" as all of these are common here and it seems contradictory to go on about this being British and normal along with it being about being multicultural. Not celebrating Halloween as you describe isn't 'narrowminded', it's just different.

It does seem a bit silly to not do Halloween costumes on the grounds of costumes and COVID and then do another costume based thing. Maybe this seems like an equally fun, safer option. Maybe they've had issues in previous years and covid is an excuse. I wouldn't really push on it, so many other things for the school to be working on than this.

Plenty of us have holidays not recognized in schools or in the wider communities we live in now so we celebrate at home. This whole "they won't be allowed to enjoy or experience anything" thing I don't get, there is plenty to enjoy and experience outside of these holidays in school and there are plenty of ways to enjoy and experiences these holidays outside of school. My local area is doing a pumpkin hunt - you put a pumpkin or pumpkin picture in your window, the kids go hunting for it, and their parents give them a treat for finding them. It'll probably have a bigger take up than trick or treat as people are really bored. I'm happy for them and will be taking part to spread some joy, even if I spend that evening as I do each year with my family and our altar with photos of our dead loved ones and discussing the dead, particularly the infants and children on the evening of the 31st.

And it's not a 'new thing', we always had Halloween parties in the late 70s/ early 80s, everyone would come in homemade costumes, we'd have apples on strings hung from a tree, sausages cooked on a fire, turnip lanterns (the smell of charred turnip is very evocative), we'd play Murder in the Dark and my Dad would blindfold us all and tell a spooky story whilst passing round a variety of objects that were covered in washing-up liquid (the climax of which was when some cooked spaghetti 'guts' were found).

I have very fond memories and did the same for my children when they were small.

My children are teens now and we went to Samhain in Edinburgh last year, followed by a ghost tour of the vaults, they absolutely loved it (as did I!).

There are many UK folk traditions associated with this time of year, embrace it, it's all part of the annual cycle.

We even celebrated Guy Fawkes night which involved the burning of an actual Catholic.

Our Catholic neighbours used to invite us around to their bonfire and fireworks on 5th November when I was growing up. They even put a guy on the bonfire.

So should schools not do anything for Christmas or Easter because some children can't take part?

I think schools should have whichever celebrations they want and children should feel free to take part as they wish. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, but my kids can do as they want in school or with their friends.

I don't think schools are automatically assholes or trying to make it so none can have any enjoyment if they choose to not do these things, especially not now with so much else on their plate, and using the idea that "all kids" will love it, find it normal, or similar is bollocks.

Yes, lots of kids do, but there will be the kid who hates the change to routine, or has a dietary needs that is difficult to include, or just doesn't like it before even getting to family reasons, and they're not less kids for that. The school has to consider so many other things in running this beyond the potential enjoyment.

@MindyStClaire

That's so weird, it's an ancient Celtic festival. I'm sure they celebrate lots of feasts from lots of cultures throughout the year, it's nice to be inclusive.

Inclusive means not running a whole school activity that people of some religions would be uncomfortable with. Would it be inclusive to force Muslims to take part in Easter or Christians to take part in Eid? If not, why do you expect they should take part in Celtic celebrations?

We don’t do hallowe’en in our house- I’d be annoyed if school rammed it down children’s throats.

A language day is appropriate for a school, and educational. Hallowe’en isn’t. School isn’t there to lay on parties for your children.

YABU.

But schools still do hold Christmas and Easter celebrations, even if not everyone takes part.

I’m not happy with Halloween being celebrated at school.

The last three years my 4 year olds friends have gone dressed up to the after school party covered on fake blood wielding fake knives. That’s disgusting and has got nothing at all to do with either All Hallows’ Eve or Samhain.

The modern day over commercialised celebrations of terror and gore is not something my kids will participate in.