Not to pay the architect?

[1400spincycle]

We are trying to start building an extension. We are still trying to get drawings so that we can apply for planning permission get quotes etc. So very early days.

We have asked an architect/engineer to draw up plans. He has made 1 visit to site and we have had a zoom meeting with him. So far he has submitted one sketch.

The issue is that this has now taken over 1 month. After the last meeting 10 days ago he promised revised, proper drawings by the following day. Following each meeting/ visit he has ignored multiple emails/attempts to contact him.

For this reason we are very concerned about taking this project further with him (it is him personally not part of a larger company). We are worried that should any issues arise further down the line we could incur very costly delays.

If we decide to cancel our agreement - on the grounds he has not supplied what was agreed - do we need to pay him for the work he has done so far (which has given us no benefit as we have no drawings?) Or do we only need to pay for services we have received?

Firstly you need a frank discussion with him about your concerns, pointing out how he is not honouring his commitments.
Assuming he doesn’t have a good explanation, then pay him for what he has delivered and cut him loose.
In my experience, this is fairly typical- the last architect we spoke to told me he was deliberately being slow to determine whether I was serious. I seriously binned him.

What do the terms of your contract say about cancellation?

If you cancel now you likely won’t have to pay his whole fee, but you may need to pay something for the services he did render. You could try refusing to pay anything in the first instance though and seeing where that takes you.

We don’t have a contract as such - although he did set out terms in a letter. I will check where we are up to.

As for a frank conversation, I wish, but the phone is ringing off the hook. I don’t really want to instruct someone else before ai’ve had a chance to speak to him but this is getting ridiculous. ( I just checked the dates and its actually closer to 6 weeks since we started this)

Check the letter but surely you can pull out as he has not met his commitments and is uncontactable. I would be quite cross and not expect to pay too much. Perhaps write cancelling your arrangement and wait to hear, see if he asks for settlement. Personally I would not want to pay effort expended rather the output received

Are you sure he’s an architect? I just ask because you say architect/engineer, and they would usually be one or the other.

While you should have better contact, the time frames don’t seem that long to me, knowing (anecdotally) that architects seem quite popular at the moment.

You do have a contract (they can be oral) and it’s likely the letter sets out the terms, so you should look at what it says about timeframes and cancellation.

It would depend on your contract - whether he is being paid for time or by deliverables.

For the future, check your architect is on the Architect’s Registration Board. That gives you the confidence they are legit. If you’re working with an engineer, then look for someone who is either a chartered civil or chartered structural engineer. This shows they have gone through a rigorous process of further learning and proven their knowledge - again, this gives confidence in their professionalism. (I’m currently working towards chartership!) You don’t need the chartered level of expertise to do an extension, but it is a good measure of the validity of the individual.

It’s your decision to not progress further if you don’t want, but you will still have to pay for his time he has spent delivering you a sketch etc.

Your post isn't making sense.

Is he an Architect (as in, qualified to the proper professional standards, and registered with e.g. RIBA?) Or an engineer, of which there are many types and have their own professional bodies?

You need to clarify what professional body he practices under urgently. Then look to the terms of the contract. Then, set out your dissatisfaction in writing - either giving him specifics to get the relationship back on track, or asking him to cease all work due to non delivery.

You need to be a bit more factual and rational, asking here whether you need to pay isn't going to be helpful.

Is he an architect, or architectural technologist? Is he self employed or is this a homer along side a full time job, it could explain why it’s taking a while.

@LoftyLucy.

Apologies my post is not precise enough for you. I know posting here is not going to solve it but I needed some informal advice on how to proceed.

I’m sorry ai am clearly an amateur at all this and don’t really know what I am doing. I don’t have £££ to spend but I do have an old leaky heat drain of a conservatory stuck onto my house.

I think the point Lucy is making is that you need to refer to the agreement you have. The letter or email sets that out and will have some standing in relation to where you are contractually. Without that pps will be giving you dud advice. Although frankly even if you describe it you will get dud advice.

His professional standing is important because that will guide his behaviour.

He's put his cards on the table very early and clearly shown that he is not somebody you want to work with

As for payment, I guess it depends on what/if you've signed anything.

[quote 1400spincycle]@LoftyLucy.

Apologies my post is not precise enough for you. I know posting here is not going to solve it but I needed some informal advice on how to proceed.

I’m sorry ai am clearly an amateur at all this and don’t really know what I am doing. I don’t have £££ to spend but I do have an old leaky heat drain of a conservatory stuck onto my house.[/quote]
You are missing the point here. Lucy isn't picking at you for not being precise - she is literally raising THE key point here, THE most important first step for you to take in order to sort the problem.

An architect is an architect and an engineer is an engineer. They are entirely different things. You being vague here firstly implies that either this person has been vague with you as to their qualifications, or you aren't sure yourself. This is vital - you want planning permission to be given, being unsure as to who exactly you have involved in your application and what their qualifications are is the first thing you need to address. Are they actually not qualified in what you want them to do?

Secondly, if you want to establish whether they've not adhered to the contract, you'd not only want to look at the detail of the letter and what they've agreed on paper to do and when, but also you would want to know what professional body they should belong to - even if only to know who to threaten them with reporting to.

So don't get sulky about it. Lucy's post has literally told you your first steps in answering your question - do I need to pay? - and hopefully how to get out of this agreement.

Is his name Peter?
I managed to make and bake an entire baby in the time it took our architect to deliver his final set of drawings

Not legal advice but common sense advice: email giving 14 days notice that if you don't receive any contact to create a draft contract with timescales that are agreed between you then you dismiss person as working for you. As you have thus far had no tangible outcomes you will assume no payment is due.

Now importantly send a printed hard copy of the letter recorded delivery to the persons address.

The motivation for my advice is if this person wants to enforce any contract/payment then they would need to rake you to small claims court. I think an average person woukd then find it unreasonable that they couldn't get in contact within several weeks and find the contract frustrated and you valid in ending it.

The person may be ill or suffering bereavement or breakdown so keep it factual and professional and brief.

@Winter2020

Not legal advice but common sense advice: email giving 14 days notice that if you don't receive any contact to create a draft contract with timescales that are agreed between you then you dismiss person as working for you. As you have thus far had no tangible outcomes you will assume no payment is due.

Now importantly send a printed hard copy of the letter recorded delivery to the persons address.

The motivation for my advice is if this person wants to enforce any contract/payment then they would need to rake you to small claims court. I think an average person woukd then find it unreasonable that they couldn't get in contact within several weeks and find the contract frustrated and you valid in ending it.

The person may be ill or suffering bereavement or breakdown so keep it factual and professional and brief.

I know you say that this is ‘common sense’ advice, but what you give is legal advice, and I’m afraid, bad legal advice at that.

She has an oral contract, if not a written one. It’s likely that the letter OP has is evidence of the terms of the contract and probably has terms on timescales and termination. That is what OP needs for to look at.

From the information given, the contract has not been frustrated (which has a specific legal meaning).

OP - as others have said, determining what the person’s profession is will be important, as that will affect the options open to you. And read the letter carefully to see what it says about timescales and termination. If you don’t understand them, if you post them in the legal section of mumsnet, someone will be able to help explain them.

I'm sorry you seem offended op but you really need to take the advice here on getting clarity on what this person is.

Your post is akin to me saying I have a painful knee and I've paid someone to fix it. But we don't know if you've paid a physiotherapist to solve muscle pain, or engaged a private orthopedic surgeon to advise on the best option for a hip replacement that's causing the knee issues, or if you've asked a family GP who lives next door for a friendly steer.

What professional you're talking about, their professional body, and what contract type you're working under (thus any liability cover/likelihood of being chased for non payment, as well as the appropriate method of redress) is so so so fundamental that no one here can reassure as to the best way forward.

More helpfully, you may have legal protection included in your home insurance that can advise you here? Just an idea from a domestic pov.

P.s. I say this as an engineer with a keen interest in making sure professional standards are adhered to - there are many "professionals" who don't have the qualifications who describe themselves in a misleading way verbally, but if you're paying for an Architect, for example, you need to ensure this person actually is an Architect.

(I recently had to point out that a neighbour was in a similar position, paying for an "architect" who wasn't registered and very carefully described himself as a designer on written material, completely misleading yet charging ridiculous rates that a real Architect may have justified... But a 2 year HND in design doesn't meet the requirements to call yourself that to a client, even verbally.)

The letter is a letter of intent. He has carried out a survey and had briefing meetings, produced concept design or survey drawing at the very least. Therefore a contract has been agreed and he is due payment for this stage of work.

It's important to check if he is a registered architect for insurance reasons. If he is a professional this may not be his priority work. The amount of progress seems appropriate for a small job.

Check the agreement letter If you are unhappy with him. Your terms may state that this stage is complete and you can opt out of further stages.

That said architectual work is alot more complex than people assume and you are unlikely to get it processed by your imagined timescale. Even if you change architect.

Hope this helps

Riba can give you client advice and ARB website search will show if he is registered

Assuming your in the UK those are the best sources of information.

@SweetPetrichor Goodluck!!! 💐💐💐
I really don't envy being back there 😭

Your contract should be staged so you should be able to get out of it.

You will need to pay him to date. He didn’t work for you for free.

Is his name Peter?
Interesting @OnCandyStripeLegs
I knew a Peter who described himself as an engineer/architect. He actually did what we needed: submitted planning docs based on our design, worked out the beam requirements etc.
But he wasn't an architect.