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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think this is illegal?

162 replies

CruzControl · 06/10/2020 12:27

I have a provisional driving license and DH has a full, clean driving license. I was a named driver on his insurance. I had a seizure and the doctor said to stop driving (I barely did anyway) and contact the DVLA (which I did). We contacted our insurance company to tell them and remove me as a named driver. They've spent the last three months trying to decide what to do (apparently this is a VERY complicated situation for their tiny brains to understand).
They've now come back to us and said they're cancelling our insurance. We have to declare to all future insurers that we've had our insurance cancelled. In addition, they are charging us £125 for a cancellation fee!
They're saying they can't leave me on the policy because I don't have a valid license (because of the seizure) and that they can't take me off the policy without cancelling the whole policy.
Our insurance premium with everyone else will skyrocket and we've lost our no claims bonus - which seems unbelievably unfair. AIBU to think this is illegal? If so, what can I do about it?

OP posts:
Middleagedmidwife · 06/10/2020 17:17

My husband had a similar situation with an insurance company. He couldn’t get anyone to insure him after cancellation. He went to ombudsman and it took about a month to clear his name and get insured again. The cancellation has been removed from his record. Don’t take it from them! Complain to ombudsman as you’ve done nothing wrong

DesignerDesigner · 06/10/2020 17:17

@Venicelover I agree 100%.

Something has been missed in the wording.

OP not being unkind but as you are inexperienced with driving and insurance and your H has only driven for 5 years, I suspect both of you are not using the correct terms on paperwork or when adding info online.

It's some kind of simple cock up.

Shooglywheel · 06/10/2020 17:20

OP do you have a note of the date and time you phoned to ask them to take you off the insurance for medical reasons?
All calls are recorded. Tell them they need to go back and listen to the call. That should sort things out. Ask them for a transcript of the call too just in case it doesn’t. I had to do this when I was missold a financial product. I quite clearly asked for A and they set up B. I got compensated too.
Also I would recommend Monet Saving Experts Resolver tool. It guides you through making a complaint. Gives template letters etc

CherryBlossomTree7 · 06/10/2020 17:31

apparently this is a VERY complicated situation for their tiny brains to understand Hmm

People are not thick just because they don't do what you want them to do. As pps have said, you've likely made a mistake when filling out the forms. No, it's not good customer service but it's likely your mistake and you can't live you life thinking everyone's stupid because they've not said what you want them to. Makes you look like you have a 'tiny brain'...

DappledOliveGroves · 06/10/2020 17:38

No wonder you're exasperated OP. First the insurers void your policy for seemingly no reason and then half a million Mumsnet year accuse you of failing to set out the facts correctly.

Echoing what previous posters have said, as soon as the time period for your insurer to respond to your complaint is up, then escalate to the FOS. I had my insurance cancelled wrongly about five years ago. Like you, the premium for finding new insurance once you have to declare that you've had a policy cancelled is sky-high. I was raging. Anyhow, the FOS sorted it AND instructed the insurer to provide me with a formal letter stating that the policy had been cancelled in error. As such, my premiums are now normal and I don't have an issue finding insurance (and I'll never touch the Coop insurance with a barge pole).

ProfessorSlocombe · 06/10/2020 17:40

All calls are recorded. Tell them they need to go back and listen to the call.

You can't go around telling insurance companies what they should or should not do !!

What you can do is state that your version of events is correct - they wont' be able to listen to the recording fast enough ....

Smile
Meuniere · 06/10/2020 17:41

@CruzControl, just for the record. Your OP was clear and I've had no issue undrstanding what was going or the reason why you have an issue with the way it has been dealth with.

I am, not sure why some posters are finding difficult tbh.

CruzControl · 06/10/2020 17:43

@CherryBlossomTree7

apparently this is a VERY complicated situation for their tiny brains to understand Hmm

People are not thick just because they don't do what you want them to do. As pps have said, you've likely made a mistake when filling out the forms. No, it's not good customer service but it's likely your mistake and you can't live you life thinking everyone's stupid because they've not said what you want them to. Makes you look like you have a 'tiny brain'...

As I have already said, we have to phone them because they won't let us do it online. Therefore, we cannot possibly have made a mistake on the form - given that we didn't fill out the fucking form. I have not made a mistake, I am not being stupid, I am not confused, I am not naive or inexperienced. It's not that they haven't said what I want them to say, it's that they're being fucking stupid.
OP posts:
Meuniere · 06/10/2020 17:44

@CherryBlossomTree7

apparently this is a VERY complicated situation for their tiny brains to understand Hmm

People are not thick just because they don't do what you want them to do. As pps have said, you've likely made a mistake when filling out the forms. No, it's not good customer service but it's likely your mistake and you can't live you life thinking everyone's stupid because they've not said what you want them to. Makes you look like you have a 'tiny brain'...

Errr... why are you assuming that the OP has made a maistake? Does it have to be the OP who made a mistake? It cant be the insurrance?

What a strange world you are living in...

CruzControl · 06/10/2020 17:45

[quote DesignerDesigner]@Venicelover I agree 100%.

Something has been missed in the wording.

OP not being unkind but as you are inexperienced with driving and insurance and your H has only driven for 5 years, I suspect both of you are not using the correct terms on paperwork or when adding info online.

It's some kind of simple cock up.[/quote]
As I've already said, we can't make changes online and had to make them over the phone. So, no. We have not made a mistake on the very, very, very simple task we had to do.
Please stop patronising me. I'm really not as stupid as you've assumed - as I've clarified many, many, many times.

OP posts:
DesignerDesigner · 06/10/2020 17:51

I'm not patronising you but I was getting a bit impatient as the exact wording from the insurers would have been helpful right at the start.

I think it's fair and not patronising to suggest you may have used some terms incorrectly , simply because as an older person with a car for almost 50 years, it's an easy thing to do. Saying 'no licence now' rather than licence surrendered is a big difference and ok maybe you said that- it's not clear.

Your subject line was a bit 'vague' asking if something was illegal when maybe you should have posted in the money forum and been more specific that you had an issue with car insurance.

I suppose I am just puzzled why it took 3 months to take you off a policy if all they had to appreciate was you could no longer drive for medical reasons. This is very common now especially as many old people stop driving due to dementia or eyesight issues so it's something they deal with daily.

I can't understand what their issue is or why after phone calls you cannot resolve it.

I still say you need t o find out who the CEO is and email them with all the details.

CruzControl · 06/10/2020 17:55

[quote Meuniere]@CruzControl, just for the record. Your OP was clear and I've had no issue undrstanding what was going or the reason why you have an issue with the way it has been dealth with.

I am, not sure why some posters are finding difficult tbh.[/quote]
Thank you!
I'm not sure either.
I feel like I came here with a genuine issue and it's been 50% people saying they (or someone they know) has experienced the same/similar and 50% "sounds like you don't know your alphabet yet or what the moon is. When did they let you out of the asylum?". I'm glad I got the helpful responses but, bloody hell, the stupid ones are frustrating to filter out.
Good job I didn't post asking for advice because I've gone blind - I think the advice would probably be "have you tried opening your eyes or turning on the light?".

OP posts:
CruzControl · 06/10/2020 17:59

@DesignerDesigner

I'm not patronising you but I was getting a bit impatient as the exact wording from the insurers would have been helpful right at the start.

I think it's fair and not patronising to suggest you may have used some terms incorrectly , simply because as an older person with a car for almost 50 years, it's an easy thing to do. Saying 'no licence now' rather than licence surrendered is a big difference and ok maybe you said that- it's not clear.

Your subject line was a bit 'vague' asking if something was illegal when maybe you should have posted in the money forum and been more specific that you had an issue with car insurance.

I suppose I am just puzzled why it took 3 months to take you off a policy if all they had to appreciate was you could no longer drive for medical reasons. This is very common now especially as many old people stop driving due to dementia or eyesight issues so it's something they deal with daily.

I can't understand what their issue is or why after phone calls you cannot resolve it.

I still say you need t o find out who the CEO is and email them with all the details.

Do you honestly believe I phoned them and said "no licence now"? Be reasonable, I understand that you're old but how stupid do you think young people are? Do you really think people in their 30s can't speak English properly? I seriously hope you don't have this attitude with the doctors and lawyers in their 30s who you think are too stupid to express basic concepts. I think you might need to take some time to assess your agist attitude, I can't imagine you take too kindly when people make ridiculous assumptions about you because of your age. Many people your age cannot use a computer properly and yet, here you are, on Mumsnet. I'm also puzzled why it took 3 months to take me off the policy. I also cannot understand what their issue is or why I cannot resolve it. That's why I came here.
OP posts:
eurochick · 06/10/2020 18:00

Reading between the lines of the language in the email they have sent it is clear that there has been a misunderstanding. They seem to be under the impression that you never had a valid provisional licence and the policy was obtained fraudulently, which is why they cancelled it. Once the complaint is escalated this will hopefully be quickly resolved.

If you speak to a new insurer about the reason for the cancellation the might not count it as a formal cancellation. I've technically had a policy cancelled as my car was stolen. As I no longer had a car they cancelled the policy. But when insuring the replacement I explained the circumstances and it was fine. Your story is a bit more complicated but it's worth a go.

CruzControl · 06/10/2020 18:01

@eurochick

Reading between the lines of the language in the email they have sent it is clear that there has been a misunderstanding. They seem to be under the impression that you never had a valid provisional licence and the policy was obtained fraudulently, which is why they cancelled it. Once the complaint is escalated this will hopefully be quickly resolved.

If you speak to a new insurer about the reason for the cancellation the might not count it as a formal cancellation. I've technically had a policy cancelled as my car was stolen. As I no longer had a car they cancelled the policy. But when insuring the replacement I explained the circumstances and it was fine. Your story is a bit more complicated but it's worth a go.

Thank you. I'll get phoning places tomorrow and see what we can do.
OP posts:
DesignerDesigner · 06/10/2020 18:22

No need to get so ratty @CruzControl. I wish I'd not bothered to try to help. Not being ageist but just using experience.

Euorchick has said almost the same thing that I and others have said but you took exception to mine simply because I pointed out you didn't have much experience in this.

Apologies anyway- I'm far from ageist.

Hope you get it sorted.

yetea · 06/10/2020 18:34

I would follow your complaint up with a written complaint. As pp have advised state you have already made a formal complaint and that you are writing to accompany that. Advise of the situation from the beginning so for example I would write along the lines of:

16 January 2020: took out insurance policy (no ) for Mr Cruz as the main policy holder with a full driving licence, Mrs Crus as a named driver with a provisional driving licence. Plead see attached statement of facts for further confirmation of the policy taken.
23 September 2020: Mrs Cruz suffered a seizure.
26 September 2020: Mrs Cruz was notified by her doctor that she should no longer drive. Mrs Cruz contacted the DVLA who have stated she must surrender her licence due to her medical issue.
29 September 2020: Mr Cruz contacted Insurance Co at 15:46 and spoke to Amy in customer services to advise that Mrs Cruz had now surrendered her licence for medical reasons and requested her removal from the policy. Amy advised that the policy would be cancelled, that a £* cancellation charge would apply and a £* set up fee would apply. Amy also stated that Mr Cruz would need to declare that he has had an insurance policy cancelled to any future insurers.
30 September 2020: received an email further confirming the information that Amy had given in the call on 29 September 2020, please find this email enclosed.
2 October 2020: New insurance policy taken out with New Insurer, as you advised was required, Mr Cruz disclosed that he has had an insurance policy cancelled. He has been charged £* for this policy, compared to the £ charge expected if he did not declare a cancellation. I have confirmed with the insurers that any changes to the policy such as amended the information about the cancellation should this be revoked and recalculating with the 5 years no claims bonus added would be in the region of £*.

Clearly there has been an error made in this process as we have not provided false or fraudulent information at any point during this process. I would like to note that I am a vunerable customer due to my medical issues, of which you are aware.
We would like to be compensated to cover the entirety of the costs we have beared and compensation for the time and distress caused by this error.

Both sign and date the letter.

I work in financial services, not the insurance sector but customer service is generally similar in the regulated services and we both go to the FOS. Our process is that a customer service advisor will initially take notes of the complaint, a complaint handler will then pick up the complaint and investigate it. Sending a letter stating all of the facts for when the complaint handler reviews it can help things get resolved quickly and efficiently. If you call up and have a less experienced customer service advisor and if you're feeling a little fraught then a situation can quickly escalate where no-one knows what is going on, what the other is saying and nothing gets resolved. If you do call at any time ask to speak to either a manager or a complaints handler. Demanding to speak to the Head of a call centre or the CEO will do nothing to help the situation (I know you haven't said this but I think I read it from a PP), all it means is your call will be pushed back as much as it can be within SLA as no one wants to speak to you. Much easier to catch flies with honey, I'll speak to colleagues and say Mrs Smith is lovely and she has a point, that call back will then be picked up first. If I say Mrs Smith is going mad, she won't listen to a word I say and keeps shouting at me, well that call is happening right at the end of the day and if it Mrs Smith doesn't answer tough luck.

Sorry for the long response, hopefully they'll get back to you soon. I wouldn't expect it to take them the whole 8 weeks.

thevassal · 06/10/2020 19:12

This seems completely mad. My dad went through a phrase of adding me/my younger siblings to his car insurance for a few months when we were home from uni/needed a car occasionally etc. When we went back to uni or then brought our own cars he just rang up and got us taken off again. Never any suggestion that he needed to cancel his policy, and this was as late as last year for my younger brother!

PrincessForADay · 06/10/2020 21:36

@ProfessorSlocombe

Motor insurance is complicated by law.

Even if an insurer cancels a policy (rather than merely stopping it) they can still be liable under a section of the RTA that makes the last insurer on a vehicle liable for 3rd party injuries.

I have direct experience of this from working with an insurer who offered a policy to a driver on condition they had a black box fitted. The driver didn't, so the policy was cancelled. However the driver then went on to drive the car, crash it, and permanently disable the 3 friends they had taken for a spin. That was a multimillion payout - even though the car was "uninsured" at the time.

Biggest motor insurance payout I've known of was well in excess of £10,000,000 - and boy did it go to court.

None of which helps the OP, but may explain why their insurer has interpreted things the way they appear to have.

@ProfessorSlocombe that's fascinating. Do you have a new story we can read? I had no idea a car insurance clam could go into the millions!
PrincessForADay · 06/10/2020 21:41

OP you have every right to be frustrated. It makes no sense! I hope that your complaint is resolved in your favour far quicker than the 8 weeks they need to quote. Good luck Thanks

ProfessorSlocombe · 06/10/2020 21:41

@ProfessorSlocombe that's fascinating. Do you have a new story we can read? I had no idea a car insurance clam could go into the millions!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selby_rail_crash

Trains are very expensive.

KillingOksana1 · 06/10/2020 21:42

That ridiculous.

I've had my licence revoked (temporarily) on medical grounds. I was the policy holder and my OH the named driver. I rang up to take me off and make the policy in his name. They did try and charge 25 pounds to cancel my policy (and then set my OH up a new one) early but waived it.

Really simple and no reason to enforce a policy cancellation that would negatively effect you.

We're with Admiral.

BarbaraofSeville · 07/10/2020 04:52

ProfessorSlocombe that's fascinating. Do you have a new story we can read? I had no idea a car insurance clam could go into the millions

The case of ' young driver permanently disabling 3 other friends' is the classic expensive insurance payout because they have to pay for potentially decades of specialist care, house adaptation, loss of income, pain and suffering etc etc for multiple people, and explains why young driver insurance is so expensive.

But the other tens of millions payout that I've heard of was the Liverpool multi storey car park fire that destroyed around a thousand cars

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-42554597

BoomBoomsCousin · 07/10/2020 06:07

CruzControl I also found your OP perfectly clear and understand your frustration. Maybe the insurance company has been hiring some of its staff from the ranks of MN's less adroit posters who seem to have been having difficulty here. 8 weeks is a long time to wait for a response to such a complaint when they are going right ahead and cancelling the insurance in just a few days.

I don't know what you can expect from the complaints procedure, unfortunately, but please keep track of all additional expenses or hardships you incur because of the increased premiums with the expectation there will be an opportunity to be have it all made right.

Also wishing you all the best with the seizures, hope the NHS can solve or manage the cause so that they don't bother you further.

ProfessorSlocombe · 07/10/2020 10:50

[quote BarbaraofSeville]ProfessorSlocombe that's fascinating. Do you have a new story we can read? I had no idea a car insurance clam could go into the millions

The case of ' young driver permanently disabling 3 other friends' is the classic expensive insurance payout because they have to pay for potentially decades of specialist care, house adaptation, loss of income, pain and suffering etc etc for multiple people, and explains why young driver insurance is so expensive.

But the other tens of millions payout that I've heard of was the Liverpool multi storey car park fire that destroyed around a thousand cars

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-42554597[/quote]
Was that paid out from an motorists insurance policy though ? Or the buildings insurance held by the council ?

The Selby payout was huge because as I said trains cost upwards of 2-3 million a carriage. And that's an absolutely quantifiable loss so very little worth in disputing. People ... less so. Most peoples lives aren't worth very much - certainly not by the time an insurer has been all over them. And if you at the Selby crash, the re insurers did everything they could to wriggle out of paying. It would be cynical and inflammatory if I were to suggest the lawyers got more than the victims. So I won't.

Returning to the "uninsured" driver that managed to disable 3 friends (I never found out if the driver was hurt) - the case was interesting as the insurer had specifically cancelled the policy before the accident. However, as I said, there's a section in the RTA about the last insurer on a car is still on the hook for 3rd party damage. Which is a cost and risk that has to be spread over all the other law-abiding motorists.

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