to think if someone boycotts a major supermarket because it is supporting Black History Month, that says a lot about that person.

[chomalungma]

A well known actor - who is against cancel culture - has said that he will boycott Sainsburies because it is supporting Black History Month and will not tolerate racism.

But he's not racist though. He just doesn't want to boycott Sainsburys.

What does it say about him?

I doubt Sainsbury’s move is anything but a marketing ploy which many can see through

As for Lawrence Fox well he is gaining popularity it won’t be long before money is behind him he is the modern man of the people talks sense blah blah blah

The pay gap isn't Sainsbury's paying black people less than white people, everyone doing a specific job will get the same hourly rate regardless of their ethnicity. The pay gap is due to the fact that a black person is less likely to be promoted and less likely to be offered training opportunities and other ince times (e.g., employee of the month) so over a lifetime they earn less than a white counterpart. As an example, the shop floor staff at Sainsbury's will be relatively diverse however by the time you reach the board of directors the staff make up is predominantly white middle aged men.

As to the safe spaces, no one is introducing separate staff rooms or segregated lockers. The safe spaces were online forums set up in the wake of the BLM protests where staff from ethnic backgrounds could meet online to share experiences and get support.

I'm not saying Sainsbury's are a shining beacon of equality but the misinformation on this thread about people being paid less and segregated staff areas needed to be cleared up.

I don't think there should be a black history month as it should be shared all the time. I think that more black history should be taught in schools (remember that it's down to the teacher as to what topics they pick!), and that by having a "month" it excuses them from including in our shared history.

I also think a company trying to profit from a cause is pretty crap. Again, they should be doing this all year round, not just 30 days.

But shouting about looking at the pay gap, and organisational groups - this is not about history and seems like celebrating a cover up

What do you mean by cover up?

There is a gender pay gap. It is illegal for women to be paid less for the same work - but we all know that there are plenty of reason why, on average, the average woman is going to be paid less than the average man in a company.

There is also an ethnicity pay gap. For similar reasons.

So if you are a woman from an ethnic minority background, the odds of you being paid less than a white male in a company is high. This does not mean that there are issues that white men face - but looking at average pay, the chances are high.

But Laurence Fox thinks that means there's a cover up - and would rather it not be talked about.

Just as I suspect he wouldn't want to talk about the gender pay gap - and is 'sex blind' when it comes to how things are - which shuts down discussion about women's rights.

remember that it's down to the teacher as to what topics they pick

From a list of set topics. For example for GCSEs, only one of those topics touches on black history and that is opportunity and inequality in American from 1920 to 1973. The rest focus on Germany, medicine, the Elizabethans, Normans, Saxons, the American West, crime and punishment, and the cold war.

But in KS3 they can choose. There is no government directive saying "don't mention the Empire" even though most school act as if there were.

There's already a Laurence Fox thread. No need for another one, surely.

oops, sorry, wrong thread. Blame the jumping ads on MN.

As you were.

Nothing worse than a rich business supporting minorities for sales- that’s not support, that’s marketing and exploitation.

Sainsbury's are just as bad as the gym that promoted a slavery-themed fitness promotion. Not quite as distastefully phrased ("slavery was hard, and so is this") but just as abhorrent, using misery to boost sales.

And sainsburys' largest shareholder is from which basic human rights and health and safety at work discarding country?

I'm rather attracted to the idea of shopping in Sainsbury's if it means that I'm less likely to come across racists, and especially if it's going to annoy the likes of Laurence Fox.

He was upset about the 'safe space'. Sainsbury's haven't posted details of what that actually means - I'd be interested to hear from an employee.

I don't like the idea of segregation (I'm BAME but not black, so frequently get left out), but the last time I had a sneaky peek at the new Black MNers board I was struck by how I didn't care about any of it because they were chatting about things that were genuinely of interest to black people only. So... I'm open to forming an opinion either way.

I'd like to know if the safe space was requested (did black Sainsbury's employees feel like they couldn't talk before?) and whether employees have actually welcomed/made use of it.

I mean, ‘cancel culture’ is only ever claimed by fuckwits who see it applying to things they like but consider their actions to be ‘reasonable boycott’.

Do people really believe this person is boycotting because he is concerned BHM will not effect meaningful change for black people? Really?

Or is he simply a racist twat?

I wonder.

I mean, ‘cancel culture’ is only ever claimed by fuckwits who see it applying to things they like but consider their actions to be ‘reasonable boycott’.

Do you really believe this? In the face of speakers who have pretty unobjectionable views, like Germaine Greer, being cancelled as speakers? Honestly?

I mean, ‘cancel culture’ is only ever claimed by fuckwits who see it applying to things they like but consider their actions to be ‘reasonable boycott’.
That's a bit harsh.

I'm centre left politically and find this growing cancel culture in some spheres to worryingly toxic. I'm not a fuckwit though, just in favour of people being able to debate ideas without the usual spheres deciding they're too fragile to possibly entertain the idea of other people listening to speakers who have views they've deemed wrongthink. Those in favour of cancel culture usually seen awfully certain that they're right, everyone else is wrong, no debate should be had (or debate should happen but only if it's between people who are accepted as having suitably rightthink ideas to give the illusion of debate).

I also think large companies trying to run silly virtue signalling campaigns is style over substance. I would be much happier if they looked at their own operating procedures, their gender pay gap, their ethnicity pay gap and all sorts of boring things that would make a meaningful difference to marginalised and disadvantaged groups. Posters and as campaigns and gimmicks for media coverage and kudos are very superficial.

I'm really not keen on the idea of black history month. How can you condense such a long and complex history into one month.
It sets a precedent of ignoring it the other 11 months of the year and is being jumped on by anyone and everyone as a marketing ploy.

These campaigns are still virtue signalling. They should be ensuring equality and diversity throughout their organisations first.

He was upset about the 'safe space'. Sainsbury's haven't posted details of what that actually means

Sainsbury's clarified in a statement yesterday that the safe spaces are online forums, set up in the wake of the BLM protests, where staff can meet to seek support and share experiences.

@Gancanny

He was upset about the 'safe space'. Sainsbury's haven't posted details of what that actually means

Sainsbury's clarified in a statement yesterday that the safe spaces are online forums, set up in the wake of the BLM protests, where staff can meet to seek support and share experiences.

Am I the only one who thinks that is a really crap idea? Not the intent behind it, but down to the fact that personally I would not log on to ANY work-based forum and start talking freely, with the thought of my posts being read by my employer in the back of my mind all the time.

The pay gap isn't Sainsbury's paying black people less than white people, everyone doing a specific job will get the same hourly rate regardless of their ethnicity.

There are a huge amount of salaried colleagues (managers, head office staff etc) who are not paid an hourly standardised salary but "within" a payscale.

"Sainsburys are creating a segregated space for Black People only"

@Porcupineinwaiting

History in our schools is carefully taught to avoid topics pertinent to black history. A couple of weeks on the slave trade (the British put an end to it, arent we amazing) and back to the Tudors. Or skip ahead to WWI and dont talk about the empire.

Until that's rectified, Black History month has a role to play.

Yeah where else will we learn about the imperialist genocidal zulus, or the fact that slaves were bought from black leaders not captured.

www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53444752

Or that the empire did a hell of a lot to try and end slavery in Africa but the local black population was absolutely against it?

"The successful sale of adults was considered an exploit for which a man was hailed by praise singers, akin to exploits in wrestling, war, or in hunting animals like the lion.

Igbo slaves served as domestic servants and labourers. They were sometimes also sacrificed in religious ceremonies and buried alive with their masters to attend to them in the next world."

^from the black author

Let's not pretend evil Europeans went over there kidnapping folk

Am I the only one who thinks that is a really crap idea? Not the intent behind it, but down to the fact that personally I would not log on to ANY work-based forum and start talking freely, with the thought of my posts being read by my employer in the back of my mind all the time. Good point.