Why are there so few women chefs

[whatisforteamum]

When I started work as a chef in the 80s it was a male dominated world.I have been the only woman most of the places I have worked.
Recently my company released some adverts and yet again the chefs where men.My boss pointed out most of our sites have male chefs.
I don't understand why.Is.It the culture or the long hours.Surely women can cook as well as men.Why do you think not many women are chefs ?

Ah very interesting.37 years in and 2 kids later I do agree about the male egos though.I think u have to love the lifestyle.I don't drink or smoke at work.It is physically demanding at times.I just wondered why do few women don't stick it out.They come and go and I am surprised I am still a rare breed decades later.

Men are chefs.
Women are cooks.

I wish I could remember where that quote came from.

I was a chef & worked my way up to the top then had a breakdown because the (female) manager made my life hell.
There was a lot of sexist banter but both ways, some kitchens I’ve worked in were nothing like the shouty ones on the tv & were more like a second family that got very drunk together.

I was a part time buttermilk breakfast biscuit maker for two years , then some guy came in and he wanted to be the biscuit maker , so they made me do the grill and flip burgers just so they can finally have a male in the back line (it was all women) I was not happy at all

(I just wondered why do few women don't stick it out.*

This makes it sound like it's some test of perseverance and not "sticking it out" a sign of weakness. Isn't it just as likely that women find they can do better elsewhere: better pay, better workplace culture, better hours?

My niece left restaurant work in the 20s and is now employed as a junior manager in a company supplying hospital equipment. I don't think she sees that as some kind of failure or inability to stick it out- she saw that she could do better elsewhere and did. As far as I know, she has a nice time at work.

Yes wellqualified my marriage has suffered if u see my many vents on here.It is VERY hard to juggle both well.Ships that pass in the night really.

Ooh, let me think, @thenightsky, could that be A Man you're quoting?

I know loads and loads of women who work in food and hospitality but I don't know any female chefs. I think it's still the perception of the bully-boy environment.

But I also think in the UK that food is seen as a 'filler' job and not a proper career - the ppl I know working in food now have gone away and come back again, so they're 30 somethings opening cook schools and cafes and doing food writing and all sorts of amazing things, but they're not doing the traditional cheffing route which tends to be something that you need to commit to early on in your career.

The thing about a boy making a cake and being told he's Heston Blumenthal is very true too though - see also men in primary school teaching.

Also 95% of the chefs out there are coke-addled alcoholics. It's really really hard to recruit a decent chef right now, I wish more women would go into the kitchen.

I agree and feel an organised woman without a temper is an asset.It has tested my patience going through menopause in a boiling hot stressful environment though.😂😂

Hours and quite sexist

Probably like film directors and creative directors - mostly male

Be interesting to see proportion in each

@1000umbrellas

I agree with pps about the environment but I think it starts earlier with expectations. When I was young I would see boys produce a pretty average cake or meal and be met with 'you should be a chef!' Whereas a girl could produce similar or better and it was just considered a nice string to have to her bow. I hadn't thought about it for a long time but I definitely noticed similar when a lot of kids and young people got into baking over lockdown.

Good point umbrellas

Because women, by and large, have more sense.

When I worked in catering, Which admittedly was 20+ years ago, cheffing was a horrendous job. Ridiculous anti-social, non family-friendly hours, crap working conditions, crazy amounts of stress at busy times and crap pay.

Form an orderly queue, ladies. What, no takers??

This is going back a few years but from the waiting side I used to wish there were more women in the kitchen. There was one on pastry section once and it was a completely different much better atmosphere with her. Usually a completely male kitchen. I was young and didn’t question it but every single thing about the ‘fine dining‘ set up was sexist, from how they treated staff to the diners.

I have thought its because they are better cooks and they end up saying " i am not going to deep fry that frozen junk and serve it to those kids "
so unless they divert into artisan bakery - they get moved on for not being " a team player " .

In my experience it was just a hostile environment for women in the kitchens- the ludicrously long hours, perfectionism required, constant time pressure, cost pressure, very high levels of stress, shouting, macho sexist/homophobic language, widespread drug use and alcoholism as everyone tried to calm down after their shifts, that stupid ‘work hard, play hard’ culture taken to a mad extreme. I worked in high end but not Michelin starred restaurants but I can only assume the issues intensified as the financial and reputation stakes got higher. As a career goal/end point it looked totally self destructive with a very very thin layer of professional respect and glamour if you could get to the top of the tree.

Very interesting thank you all.I have done it so long I guess I am institutionalized.I am beginning to see the men in their true light though and sexism is rife.

I agree Dateloaf.Tbh the adrenaline rush got me through the days.Like I say I never stayed for a drink and I do know alcoholism is rife.Sadly for the men it became the norm to drink a huge proportion of their wages each week.I managed to use my wages to pay a mortgage.
I don't have any female chefs to ask.I did work in one family run place and when we were taken over but a big company we were worked like dogs!.
Monday's I worked alone and sometimes went home at 1 am.!

In no other job do you EXPECT to be yelled at

I work in investment banking and expect to be yelled and sworn at on a regular basis. As should anyone else joining the industry. Undeniably the pay is better though.

I think sadly there are probably a fair few jobs left where you get shouted at.
I worked in horse racing for years and the way stable staff are screamed and shouted at by trainers is horrendous.
Obviously like any job there are good bosses who treat staff well but as a whole its terrible.

My experience of chefs just comes from TV. People like Gordon Ramsey having tantrums or the challenges on Master chef. They make me feel stressed out just watching! I also couldn't stand the heat.

Long and very family-unfriendly hours
Macho and bullying culture
Dominated by men
Low pay unless you're one of the sub 1% who become mega successful if you're going to be shouted at and have to work around the clock you want it to be worth your while

Theres actually a funny distribution of ability in all skills between the populations of men and women. Women are more likely to be average at skills. Men are more likely to be very bad or very good. This graph here, men are green, women blue. The further along the x axis, the better these people are at a skill, the y axis is what percentage of the population is at that point.

@Nottherealslimshady

Theres actually a funny distribution of ability in all skills between the populations of men and women. Women are more likely to be average at skills. Men are more likely to be very bad or very good. This graph here, men are green, women blue. The further along the x axis, the better these people are at a skill, the y axis is what percentage of the population is at that point.

I don't come on mumsnet for sexist pseudoscientific crap like this.

Thanks @Thinkingg was just summoning up the effort to say what you've said.

Same reasons as men are at the top of every profession. Because they are encouraged, enabled and freed to do so by the same social and cultural expectations that tell women that children are all their fault and they alone have responsibility for them.

Same reasons as men are at the top of every profession. Because they are encouraged, enabled and freed to do so by the same social and cultural expectations that tell women that children are all their fault and they alone have responsibility for them.
Absolutely this. Women are programmed to be the primary care givers and a profession with such unsociable hours would be difficult for many women.
Where are the celebrity female chefs?

The hours have to be a huge factor.

My male cousin used to work in a kitchen, when he and his wife, a waitress, had a baby they decided that they could only manage if one of them was in the trade, so he left - she mad more money. It was just the hours, the shift work, the lack of stability.

The one woman chef I know has a small take home meals business, so she has pretty regular hours and works for herself.