To wonder how much weight to give to Ofsted report?

[FunDragon]

We are halfway between two primary schools. One has an ‘outstanding’ rating from Ofsted and the other has a ‘good’ rating. The ‘outstanding’ one has that rating in all five of the areas they score. The good one is rated good in four areas and outstanding in one area. Overall I have a better feeling about the ‘good’ rated one for a variety of reasons. But my DH is heavily influenced by the Ofsted reports.

Neither my husband nor I have ever worked in education and I know absolutely nothing about the Ofsted inspection system so I am hoping that more knowledgeable people will be able to advise me. How much weight should you give to an Ofsted report when choosing a school? Does an ‘outstanding’ rating mean it’s automatically an overall better school? AIBU to pay more attention to other factors?

Thank you.

The Ofsted report from 2012 is irrelevant now anyway. One thing that you can ask the "good" school is how they are addressing the points that were raised in the Ofsted report. Depending on when the inspection was, they may already have addressed them/be in the process of addressing them. If they don't have any sort of plan this would ring alarm bells!

Even though you can’t look around, can you speak to the head on the phone? What are they offering to parents in place of tours (this could be quite telling actually)

Based on the hatchet job they did on the school my kids go to I’d put no weight on it whatsoever.

Our school was good, which I think was a fair assessment. It isn’t outstanding, there are areas that could be improved. Ofsted came in, put it straight into special measures and now it’s an academy.

The report bore no relation to the school itself, the results and the report completely conflicted but Ofsted had had the order to privatise and boom!

It’s no coincidence our school cost a lot in pupil premium.

Definitely go with your gut. A school can be 'outstanding' because it performed well on the day for Ofsted and push children to perform well on exams. It doesn't really tell you much about the sort of school it is and how holistic and supportive it is.

For what it's worth, we opted for a school that was 'requiring improvement' over one that was 'good'. Because it gave us both a better gut feeling and we'd only heard negative things about the other 'good' school (mostly about behavioural issues and pastoral care). It was an excellent choice. It was only marked down because it had had a lot of turnover in headteacher and governors, and because of test score averages, but it's a very small school (some years only have 12 students), so if one does poorly, it brings the whole average down. Two years later, it was back to rated as 'Good'. My friend who is a teacher actually said she intentionally avoided 'outstanding' schools when looking for her dd because they tend to be very concerned with maintaining that rating, regardless of whether it's good for students or not.

Even if you can't visit, you can tell a lot about the ethos of a school from their website, Facebook, etc. And I'd say the school run is also a factor, how easy will it be for you to get there every day, parking, school transport, etc.

Ds goes to an outstanding school. last inspected 12 years ago. It's definitely not outstanding anyone but hopefully good.

DD1 started at a primary school that had a reputation for being really dreadful. Think at the time, it had on and only just come out of special measures, but I liked the Head Teacher, and is practically on our doorstop.

A local mum even said she was, 'shocked,' that I would allow DD to go there.

Fast forward and it's now OFSTED outstanding, and is heavily over subscribed. (and the shocked mum regrets not getting her DCs there...)

I wouldn't worry too much about OFSTED ratings, unless it was in special measures, then would want to know why.

I’d go with the good one in a heartbeat from what you’ve said. Especially the outside forest school bit (more so in these Covid times). It’s convenient, the heads nice and it’s outstanding on behaviour and safety.

Kids learn best where they are happy.

@ilovemydogandMrObama

DD1 started at a primary school that had a reputation for being really dreadful. Think at the time, it had on and only just come out of special measures, but I liked the Head Teacher, and is practically on our doorstop.

A local mum even said she was, 'shocked,' that I would allow DD to go there.

Fast forward and it's now OFSTED outstanding, and is heavily over subscribed. (and the shocked mum regrets not getting her DCs there...)

I wouldn't worry too much about OFSTED ratings, unless it was in special measures, then would want to know why.

The local juniors was the same. All of a sudden people were moving their kids mid years into it. I call them “ofsted chasers”. Bit sad for the kids if they were happy where they were.

Definitely go with the good based on your latest post...
you are probably getting a natural bias in responses but I too am a parent that was faced with the same two options.
I didn't like the Ofsted outstanding because although it was bigger, with better facilities, a pile of sponsorship from local businesses and a lovely 'image' in our area - I actually found that the head was very unapproachable, did not know the kids as individuals, open days were very focused on talking about academic achievements - SATs rather than an 'education'.
We ended up at the nearby small 1 form entry 'good' school. The kids run up to the headmistress and there is cuddles and warmth, the school is proud of its non academic achievements - 'we guarantee every child will have a chance to represent our school - whether its an academic field, sports, social events with the community, music before they leave'. Their results are above average but not excellent, but the holistic approach gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all the time. Both kids are very different but both love school...
For me is if you can't visit - talk and talk to the headteacher, reception teacher, deputy head, even governers or other parents - basically anyone they will let you speak to that will give you a sense of the atmosphere and culture in the school. If they are so busy they can't do that - bad sign, if they are dismissive that you need this to make a good decision - also a bad sign.

There can be little difference between the outstanding and good except a couple of things that might need tweaking. Most of the time it’s small things.

Outstanding schools are inspected less frequently so one that was outstanding several years ago might have had staff changes and not be so good now.

Definitely read the reports to see what areas mean it didn’t get outstanding. Chances are the school will have already acted on the recommendations by now.

The main relevant point is it was outstanding in 2012. That is a very long time ago. Outstanding schools were allowed not to be inspected regularly like others and many have slipped (sometimes dramatically) when reinspected much later.

Ofsted have changed the inspection regime radically very recently to put the emphasis much more on a balanced curriculum, behaviour and safeguarding than test results. Any recent inspection gradings are just in no way comparable to those from a few years ago

I often think it's like the stock market or high fashion. By the time a school gets outstanding and everyone is queued to get in it's likely past it's peak and the only way is down. The smart money is probably on the up and coming place down the road.

I am someone who works in the Education sector. An inspection in 2012 is a very very long time ago in terms of school standards. There is no guarantee that the school that was Outstanding 8 years ago is the same school now, the problem is that previously once a school was graded outstanding they were no long routinely inspected unless there was a significant safeguarding concern

The recent change in the Ofsted inspection criteria means it is actual quite hard for schools to gain an Outstanding judgement now so if the "Good" rating was gained recently there is a high chance it is probably a similar standard of school to the old "outstanding" rated one

I would say go with your gut

My dd goes to a secondary that is in special measures on a technicality.

Before lockdown I was in a primary school that was being inspected and there were NINE members of staff, four of them teachers, working with the children in a DT lesson where there was usually one teacher and one TA. It was absolutely ridiculous but was mentioned in the report. Of course it was a outstanding lesson! 🤯

We chose a "good" school further away over an "outstanding" local one. The outstanding school was very dogmatic and results-focussed which we displiked immediately. The good school is child-centred and took a more holistic view on education. Absolutely no regrets!

There are 2 Outstanding schools near us - linked as an a academy and both rated outstanding but not inspected for about 10 years!

There are 3 good schools a similar distance from us and all have been inspected regularly and didn't get outstanding due to factors that are not a concern to me.

I actively disliked the head of the Outstanding places and got the feeling that keeping that rating was the main issue for them. Mine go to the scruffy, smaller and less well resourced school where the head teaches each class each week and knows each child by name and where SATS results are not the focus of the school year.

If the outstanding school has not been inspected since 2012 I'd be a bit wary of giving the grading too much weighting in my decision. Lots could have happened since then (and there could have been loads of staff changes).

Thanks so much for your replies. Yes, I absolutely agree that we shouldn’t put much weight on an inspection from 2012. I pointed out the inspection date to my DH and he fully accepts that too. That’s why posting on MN is so useful, I wouldn’t have checked the dates without being prompted (I know they’re plain to see but for some reason we just didn’t notice them)!

Obviously I have zero knowledge in this area, I’m sure Ofsted has its reasons, but it seems absolutely bizarre to me that a school can perform well during an inspection the best part of a decade ago and still hold an ‘outstanding’ rating! Surely anything could have happened in the meantime? All the staff could have left and been replaced surely!

Our local primary was downgraded from good to requires improvement at its last inspection. My 3 children go there, it's a lovely school and they've all made great progress, all the other parents say the same. The report really bears very little resemblance to the school day to day (and I've been in and out of the school regularly over the last 7 years as a parent helper/PTFA volunteer and now a governor). From that, I would take all OFSTED reports with a pinch of salt and take more notice of what people who know the school say and what your gut feeling is.

Outstanding rated schools aren't inspected as often...there have been a few in our area that have gone from outstanding to requires improvement. 8 years without an inspection is a long time for things to change.

Is the headteacher the same?

Have you got a local FB group you can ask for parents experiences with with schools both good and bad.

My DC go to a "good" primary, the children are welcomed and make good progress. Lower ability are given extra help to progress and the higher ability children are stretched. I wouldn't switch it even if a place at an outstanding school came up.

Go with the school that best suits your child's needs. OFSTED ignore traditionally outstanding schools. The rating means very little when it is that old. Staff could have changed. If the head has changed it could be a totally different school. In my experience outstanding schools can be obsessed with outstanding meaning results above all else. Often a high turnover of staff. Not always but the ones I am familiar with. If you prefer the other school go for it.

I went round lots of primary schools and picked a Good one over two different Outstanding ones as my first choice. It was small, it was friendly, I liked the Head and I got a much better feeling when I was there than in the better rated ones. It was a great choice and actually became Outstanding whilst she was there. Best of luck.

2012 report doesn't mean anything tbh. I work in schools and many heads have been open with me that they would never achieve an outstanding ofsted now (since last inspected 5+ years ago) . When was the 'good' school ofsteded? I think regardless though go with what other parents say and your gut feeling.

When my DC started at their primary school, it was "good".

Ofsted inspection a couple of years later - it was downgraded to "requires improvement"

Reinspected 18months or so later, and was judged to be "outstanding".

Throughout all of those different ratings, we did not see any noticeable difference in the standards of teaching or management.

Probably, it was actually a reasonably solid "good" all the way through.

So I'd definitely take ofsted ratings with a huge pinch of salt. Maybe read the reports to see if there are any real red flags, but otherwise, just go on your gut feeling and talk to other parents at both schools, if you know any.

When DD started at her school, it was rated good and was lovely. It changed to outstanding whilst she was there and was so horrible as a result, that younger DS changed to do his last two years at a "good" school instead.

Ofsted is literally based on statistics about students and often teachers that WERE in the school before the report was made, they're a red herring. Your husband needs to take parenting a bit more seriously, your daughter needs a safe environment where she can make friends, feel happy and ideally grow into being more independent etc. Those are literally the criteria to be assessing school by.