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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if a man who has treated women like crap in the past can change?

52 replies

Extrachilli · 01/10/2020 12:15

You’ll have to bear with me as this post will be LONG. I’ve just realised I’ve never properly spoken about this so it’s kind of cathartic to write it all down.

When I was 18 I met a guy that I was absolutely besotted with. He was absolutely gorgeous, charming (though now I see it as smarmy) older than me (but he lied about his age, so instead of being 4 years older than me, he was 8) and just seemed so sophisticated and unlike anyone I’d ever met before.

In short, he basically used me for sex on and off for 4 years until I was 22. I was young and naive and kept thinking he’d fall in love with me. In reality, he used to pick me up from my parent’s house about 9pm at night, shag me and then drop me home. He would try and get me to do stuff I didn’t want to do sexually (anal being one, he was absolutely obsessed with it) and when I said no went stone cold and quite cruel towards me. Looking back he would frequently make undermining comments, for example, when I went off to uni and saw him for the first time in the holidays, he basically told me I’d got fat. I put on just over half a stone admittedly at uni but went from a size 6-8 to a 8-10 so hardly fat!! (I lost it as soon as I graduated pretty much because I wasn’t binge drinking and eating crap all the time)

A memory that always sticks in my mind is I had a sad and emotional situation occur in my family quite suddenly and the weekend that it did, he wanted to pick me up on the Sunday evening and have sex. I was so numb and felt very alone at the time and just went along with it because I needed some comfort and stupidly thought I might get it from him. I remember sitting in his car and just crying and whilst he was ‘sympathetic’ that didn’t stop him having sex with me. Don’t get me wrong, it was consensual but any kind, decent man in that scenario surely would’ve seen the state I was in and just dropped me back home.

The final straw was when I was out one night with friends, he was ringing me as he was out too and I ended up meeting up with him and his friends at the end of the night getting a taxi with them and getting dropped off at his. We were all sat there and he started telling his friends, in front of me, about this amazing girl he’d met, she was so beautiful, blah blah. He pulled his phone out and showed them and me a photo of her and asked what we all thought. I sat there feeling so humiliated and all I wanted to do was stop the minibus and get off. But it was 3 in the morning, my phone had run out of battery, I had no money left and no way of getting home if I asked them to pull over in the middle of nowhere and let me out. So i just had to sit there, whilst he made me look like a total twat and then when I got back to his I didn’t feel confident enough to say no when he wanted sex! Strangely, I just knew he’d marry that girl, it was the way he talked about her and the way his face changed when he talked about her. That hurt just as much as what he did in that minibus. This was also the same night I found out he’d lied about his age and he was in fact 9 years my senior and nearly 30, instead of mid 20’s like I thought he was. (He was 27 when we met when I was 18, rather than 22 like he said!)

There are so many other examples of him being disrespectful, cruel and cold but we’d be here all day.

Anyway, a couple of years went by, I’d graduated and got my first job. I was sat there in the office one afternoon and my phone beeped, it was a message from him. It said ‘were you ever in love with me?’ At first I wasn’t going to dignify it with a response, but I did message back saying as I was young and stupid I probably thought I was at one point, but it definitely wasn’t love. I stalked his FB profile for the first time in years and it was pretty much all public and I could see that he was getting married the following week (to that girl) wtf?!

Anyway, occasionally over the years when bored I’ve had a look at his social media and from his profile it is clear that he is absolutely besotted with his wife (who was that girl he spoke about that night) they both look sickingly in love, which is fine, but I wonder if she knows how her husband used to treat women?

I haven’t thought about any of this properly for years, but I’ve been doing some self reflection this week and am ashamed and embarrassed that I let a man treat me so badly. I had zero self respect so it’s hardly surprising he didn’t have any for me. I’m so angry at myself as I’m so much better than that. I’m pregnant with my first child and just found out it’s a girl. I guess I’m thinking I’d never want her to be involved with a man like him. I went to raise her to always know her worth.

So, after that REALLY long post, I am wondering this morning whether deep down, no matter how much he loves his wife, whether he is still probably an arsehole? Is it possible to treat women (because I can guarantee it wasn’t just me he was using for sex and being a dickhead to) so disrespectfully and yet be seemingly so respectful to another? Do people really change that much? I guess I could excuse all this if he was 18 too as when we’re young we all make mistakes, but knowing he was not far off 30 for most of it, he’d have known how disrespectful he was being?

Like I said, all of this was on my head I fully appreciate, someone can only treat you how you allow them to be treated and I allowed it, so I’m certainly not blameless. But IMO it doesn’t make the mark of a nice person and if I found out that DH, aged nearly 30, treated women like that, I think it would make me re-evaluate how I saw him.

OP posts:
SonEtLumiere · 01/10/2020 13:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JunkCrumpet · 01/10/2020 13:28

@Letssee100

Hasn't he already cheated on her with you? He met her but slept with you?
Well, no. He was sleeping with OP regularly. Met this woman (not dated, got into a relationship with, not married, not even asked out) and then slept with OP once more. That's not cheating.
D4rwin · 01/10/2020 13:35

Nope. There's no changing someone like that after all. He was pulling the tragic "Did you ever love me" making out he was some sort of victim in how he behaved. Probably just after a shag.

Extrachilli · 01/10/2020 13:39

@AnotherNamedChanged

NC to reply as I'm a boring middle aged housewife now but I actually think people can and do change. Just taking myself as an example (I'm a woman, but don't see why it is different for men). When I was younger, I had two longish term relationships. Both the men were seriously lovely and I would have been very lucky to end up with either of them. But I was young and I was selfish, I cheated on them, I was mean to them, I lied to suit my own agenda. I ended both relationships as they didn't challenge me and I didn't care... Then I met my now husband, who is also a really lovely man, and I am so lucky to have found him, I probably didn't deserve to. I think the key is that I respect him, I clearly didn't with the others. As soon as we got together I was a different person. I thought I was in love with the others, but I wasn't really, couldn't have been. I adore my husband, have never lied to him, couldn't contemplate cheating on him, have never even looked at another man since we met, he is genuinely my everything. We have been together nearly twenty years. Without even knowing it, he has made me into a different person, for the better! Maybe your ex just found his person...
See, even though I’ve posted this thread and after everything that I said in it. I do actually believe that this is the case with him. That he met her, respected her and so just behaved like a normal, kind, loyal human being.
OP posts:
thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 01/10/2020 13:41

He could have sent a message apologising for his awful treatment of you, it wasn't because he hasn't changed.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 01/10/2020 13:43

@D4rwin

Nope. There's no changing someone like that after all. He was pulling the tragic "Did you ever love me" making out he was some sort of victim in how he behaved. Probably just after a shag.
^^This. Again, he reached out to you but not to apologise, he's still the same.
Extrachilli · 01/10/2020 13:54

I don’t really know what the point of this thread is to be fair, I’m just feeling nostalgic and a bit maudlin today (probably pregnancy hormones)

I can remember when I found out he was getting married and it felt like someone had punched me in the stomach, then when I looked at his FB and saw her, I thought fuck, she looks like me! I showed my friend who before I even said anything said ‘she looks quite a lot like you doesn’t she- he obviously has a clear type.’that at the time made me feel even worse as I thought, well we practically look the same, so why her and not me.’ I realise how stupid that was now as there’s a whole myriad of reasons why. The first being respect, and that she obviously insisted on it and I didn’t.

But he really was very cold and cruel at times, so he’s obviously got that in him, so I just don’t think if he able to relax if I found out my husband had been like that with (probably) numerous women before me.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter and can I just say that life DEFINITELY worked out for the best for me. I met and married a man who in himself is very good looking, charming, extremely intelligent and successful. I know he broke a few hearts before me as he ended relationships when he just wasn’t feeling it, I even met an ex of his once who said (after many drinks) that she was devastated when he ended their relationship, but he did so with such kindness and respect. She said ‘he really is such a good man.’ and he is. His moral compass is through the roof, he’d have had numerous opportunities over the years to use women for sex if he wanted, but he never did. I have, without a doubt hit the jackpot with him and have ‘the better man.’

I think, as embarrassed as I am to say this, that I’m thinking and feeling this way today due to a bruised ego Blush I’ve never had a man since treat me the way he did, in fact I always had men falling at my feet Blush I am lucky in that I’ve forged a lovely life, very successful career and have turned out just fine. I almost need him to know this (obviously he won’t, I’m not that bat shit Grin) but this week, for whatever reason I can’t let go of the fact someone saw me as nothing.

Is that normal or am I just batshit? Blush

OP posts:
CakeRequired · 01/10/2020 14:03

Well, no. He was sleeping with OP regularly. Met this woman (not dated, got into a relationship with, not married, not even asked out) and then slept with OP once more. That's not cheating.

Depends on what he meant by 'met'. Maybe they were in a relationship, in which case sleeping with op was cheating. If he'd met her and hadn't even been on a date yet, no it's not cheating.

But asking op if she was in love with him back then a week before his wedding? Highly dodgy. Why care? Why even ask? There's no reason to. Except because he wanted one last fling before marriage. Or may he just wanted to hurt op. Either way, he's scum.

frazzledasarock · 01/10/2020 14:06

Someone who messages you asking you if you ever loved them, completely out of the blue weeks before they are due to get married, has not changed one bit.

Also imo, people who post amazing happy shit all over social media, are seldom living the deliriously happy fairy tale they're desperately trying to convey.

Try and put that man out of your head, enjoy your pregnancy and your life.

Lydia777 · 01/10/2020 14:09

He probably treats her better but cheats. He sees her as someone more worthy of respect that he saw you-because in general he sees women as objects to be used-she is just 'the chosen one.'

I had a friend who is now married to a man who used to boast when they got together on how every woman wanted him and he'd just sleep with them and tell them to leave the next day. She boasted about this to us as she was different-the chosen one. We pointed out to her that he simply wasn't a nice person and we couldn't understand that she didn't have a problem with how he treated women in general.
They seem reasonably happy and I know he adores her but I know for a fact that he is controlling.

ncd5785 · 01/10/2020 14:11

Had he been a teenager when he treated you like that, I'd have said maybe he could change later on, the age he was, I really really doubt it. The message he sent you before the wedding tells me he definitely hasn't changed at all

Lydia777 · 01/10/2020 14:11

Also, maybe he text you for a last shag. So some women are fine to be used, just not his wife.

CaraDuneRedux · 01/10/2020 14:12

No.

But I think you already know that, because you know why he contacted you out of the blue the week before his wedding. He was angling for a "last shag for old times' sake before I tie the knot."

I'd bet a modest sum that despite the carefully curated social media presence, he's a serial philanderer.

Extrachilli · 01/10/2020 14:17

@Lydia777

I was shocked to find out his wife is a few years younger than me. He’s 11 years her senior, he had controlling ways for sure and I’m wondering whether his chosen ‘life partner’ just happened to be 11 years younger. I can’t help but think it was partly calculated on his part, someone so young, and so much younger than him probably wouldn’t challenge him as someone his own age. But perhaps I’m wrong there!

OP posts:
Eckhart · 01/10/2020 15:15

Is that normal or am I just batshit

Batshit is normal.

spoons123 · 01/10/2020 15:18

I don't think it matters whether he has changed or not. I think you should be thinking about yourself - it still hurts when you remember how appallingly he treated you which is completely understandable.

I wonder whether you've posted here because you need to get it out of your system, once and for all? Could you tell the whole, unvarnished truth to a trustworthy friend or a counsellor? Could you write the whole story down and show it to someone or destroy it?

It's how you cope with the memories of being treated so unkindly that are important.

LilaButterfly · 01/10/2020 15:18

I guess it really depends. I used to be awful to guys. Dating more than one at a time, lying, cheating, bending everything to suit myself..
Then i met DH and everything changed. I met DH when i was still very young, so it was probably a mix of finding the right person and growing up.
I think the older a person is, the less likely they will change.
I have lots of friends (male and female) who are not proud of what they did in their early 20s and who are completely different people, now that they are mid 30s.

valtandsinegar · 01/10/2020 15:20

So when they met, he was 30 and she was 19? That is a bit... Confused

Extrachilli · 01/10/2020 15:40

@valtandsinegar, yes. I know, it is a bit Confused I can’t help but think he chose someone so young because he knew they’d be easier to control. I thought the age gap between us was enough and inappropriate and actually, if he hadn’t have lied to me and told me his real age, I wouldn’t have gone there with him.

@spoons123, writing it down here (for the first time ever) has been really cathartic. I think you’re right, for some reason, today I just felt the need to tell the story and express how annoyed and disappointed I am to 1) have been treated like that and 2) that I allowed myself to be. Then it got me wondering whether perhaps he isn’t the kind, loving guy he makes out to be now.

Who knows, I actually don’t really care. I just needed to finally acknowledge that I was treated badly out loud.

OP posts:
Eckhart · 01/10/2020 15:55

I just needed to finally acknowledge that I was treated badly out loud

It's funny how the desire for closure can sit quietly inside us for ages, and then, one day, when we're ready, it presents itself openly. And closure comes with it.

Totickleamockingbird · 01/10/2020 16:00

As I grow older, hopefully wiser and a bit more cynical, I am beginning to think that people don’t really change after a certain age. He was past that age already when you saw him first. Sorry you had to go through all that. It’s rotten but you sound like a very strong woman now. Congrats for coming out so well through all that mess!

HowFastIsTooFast · 01/10/2020 16:07

My initial reaction is to say that no they don't change, but my EXH was an emotionally abusive horror to me, absolute textbook narc, liar, sex addict. I could go on.

He split up with his girlfriend of 3 years a few months ago and (LONG story) I recently ended up having the opportunity to quite openly chat to her and a friend of hers that knew him. Totally different ball game apparently. Charming, sweet, thoughtful, her friends all liked him, whereas mine all hated him for the way he treated me. She had no particular reason to lie to me about him, we didn't overlap and have no beef with each other. He's out of both of our lives now so no reason for her to protect him either, she knows I know him!

So I don't know. Maybe? Maybe occasionally someone sees the error of their ways and makes efforts to fix it? Maybe some couples just bring out the very worst in each other? It's definitely possibly for people to bring out the best in each other so makes sense it can work both ways?

Eckhart · 01/10/2020 16:10

Maybe some couples just bring out the very worst in each other

I think this is a big thing. It's not really anybody's fault. I've been quite a nightmare in some past relationships, due to trying to stay with someone I've simply not been compatible with. It can turn you into someone you're not.

Lydia777 · 01/10/2020 16:21

You could be right about the age difference and social media really does not give an insight into any relationship. All in all though, I think with all bad experiences, its best to count your blessings that you got away and upgraded-that woman really didn't win a prize.

And as rubbish as the experience was, you learned a lot from it and learned wisdom to pass onto your daughter if you have one. Personally, I think there is so much more to be learned from people who have made the bad decisions or have experienced the bad relationships than from people who have had all good experiences-less naive!

MsRinky · 01/10/2020 17:33

I don't think people change much after their mid-twenties, but I have observed quite a lot of people who are very compartmentalised in their behaviour, that is they split people into worthy/not worthy of respect categories and treat them accordingly. Interestingly, the categorisation often doesn't seem to be based on the behaviour or attitude of the other person, so it's not about how they "allow" themselves to be treated.