To feel hurt

[NumbsMet]

I have two brothers, both younger, DB1 is two years younger and DB2 is 14 years younger.

I've always had a rocky relationship with DB1. We lost our father at a young age, and we shared the same sense of humour, so there were things that brought us together and made us feel very close. However, he can be very stubborn and pig headed. I'm pretty sure I can be all sorts of things too.

When my youngest brother was a baby, DB1 had an argument with DM and ended up shoving her over. She hit her head and fell unconscious. I was holding DB2 and I was petrified. DB1 left the house because he needed to calm down. I was never quite comfortable with his temper after that, but after a few years things settled and we became friends again.

I have a great relationship with DB2, he's hilarious, and charismatic, and very self assured. DM sometimes feels left out when DB2 and I are 'bantering' which I don't want her to feel. Sometimes she gets upset about it and feels we're deliberately excluding her, or even talking about her, which makes me sad because I never would.

About five years ago, DB1 and I both had to move back in with DM for a short while (both for different but financial reasons and DM was happy for us to). During this time, DB1 and I would play games and have drinks together and set the world to rights. However, one evening I was tidying up, and I was moving some bags from one room to another. DB1 didn't want the bags moved (they were DMs bags, not his). He stood in front of me and refused to let me move them. I had recently come out of an abusive relationship, so I felt very defensive, and I said to him I'm going to move the bags whether he liked it or not. I made to step forward and he shoved me backwards.

I was distraught. DM was nowhere nearby when this happened but DB2 saw the whole thing. I became very emotional and wanted to leave the house, but DB2 was worried for my safety and told me to stay home. DB1 refused to talk to me since then, to this day he still doesn't. I moved out shortly after because I didn't feel safe around him. I then met Mr. Numbs and we have DC, that DM loves to pieces. But she's sad that DB1 isn't going to meet them.

I've told her that I'm not comfortable for her to invite him over (without him knowing I'm here) to meet DC. I said to her that he would have to apologise first. She's obviously upset about that and has been trying to change my mind. I understand this.

What I don't understand is that she is still unwilling to accept that DB1 did anything wrong. At first she was just repeating that she didn't see it so she doesn't have an opinion. Then when DB2 told her the same story, she said that DB1 must have been upset at how DB2 and I were treating her and he was just defending her and was angry with me. She accepts that he shouldn't have pushed me, but thinks I should let it go and call him to arrange for him to meet DC.

I love DM to the moon and back but this makes me so uncomfortable. AIBU to think she should be more understanding? Or should I do what she wants me to do and let go.

I wouldn't. He is clearly in the wrong

Urh.. shudders... what a nasty scenario. Your mum is trying to make her children all be friends when she knows it is not going to happen.

Mums don't like to see their children falling out. I know I don't, but if I knew one of my children had a violent side to his nature I could not defend him as she is doing.

Stick to your guns.

Sorry, but if my kids had a set-to, that was endorsed by another kid, and one of those kids had physically assaulted the other, I'd be saying to the one that had laid hands on the other, that damned straight they were out of order, and needed to apologise!

Least said, soonest mended, has to be one of the most toxic ideologies for a family to attempt to abide by.

Lord knows, I've seen it in our families. It just means that ill feeling and entitled behaviour spread like cancers.

Has your DM always minimised his behaviour, even as a child? Was he around DV growing up or is there something else underpinning it? IMO he's not safe to be around you or your DC. He's behaved violently twice,in front of witnesses. That's not ok. Ever. It doesn't even sound like he's interested anyway ,so push that as a line of argument too. I think you're right not to want contact. Even if he did apologise,I'd still not feel comfortable tbh.

That's very reassuring. I look at my DC and wonder what I'd do if I was in DM's position. I hope that never happens. But I can't abide physical abuse and hope I would never stand by if it happened under my nose.

When DM calls him, she's not allowed to talk about me, DC or DB2 because he doesn't want to hear about us. He has decided he hates us. I really can't get my head around hating somebody because you hit them

DF was physically abusive to me, but not to DB1 because he always wanted a son. DF was never abusive to DM, ever.

I also don't feel comfortable about him being around DC. There are things I could say that would make your skin crawl about how he treated DB2 as a young child. Never physically abusive, but very psychological.

Right, yeah, nah, sorry DM, your eldest son is an absolute toad, and you're enabling, and minimising his behaviour, heedless of the harm already caused, and continued risk of detriment, to your daughter, and your other son. You have made no effort to ensure that they behave as they ought to each other, and your fractured family is the consequence.

I've seen this up close and personal in a family with two sons and a daughter - however, it's the boys who have a healthy, mutually supportive, genuinely friendly relationship, and the girl who doesn't, as a result of the differing treatment, enabling, and minimisation of her rather poor behaviour throughout their lives. And yes, their mother (who is also a lovely lady, like your mother sounds), has an absolute blind spot, and was forever bewailing her poor daughter being on the outer, and how it wasn't fair, and why couldn't they all just get along? (Until I got fed up, and rather brutally answered that rhetorical question, and then she shut up about it. To me, anyways!)

This sounds like a ghastly family set-up and dynamic OP. No advice really, just sympathy, except to say Protect Yourself (and DC) and Survive. That will mean meaningful boundaries needing to be set by you, based on normal decent behaviour.

Your DB1 is a man who is violent to women.
He’s learnt that from your DF by the sounds of it.
Your DM is his excuser and enabler.

I refer to my first line. He’s violent to women. He doesn’t apologise as his family (your DM) tell him it’s ok by their actions.

Don’t let a violent man into your children’s lives.
Be the person who says it’s NOT ok.

Thanks, all. It's good to know that I can trust my gut. I think instead of continuing to say to her that he needs to apologise, I'll just say now that I don't want him to have anything to do with me or DC.

There are things I could say that would make your skin crawl about how he treated DB2 as a young child. Never physically abusive, but very psychological.

That's very concerning given the age gap. I would not want him around my children. If your mum doesn't see it I would also be concerned about unsupervised access for her.

There are things I could say that would make your skin crawl about how he treated DB2 as a young child. Never physically abusive, but very psychological*

Who your father or your other brother? Your eldest brother is abusive. How old was he when he kno led your mother unconscious?

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion my brother, not my father. He didn't physically abuse DB2 but there are things he did that I would never be comfortable with if he tried them with my DC.

DB1 was 12/13 when he pushed DM unconscious.

I wouldn't want him around my kids then OP. I think you are quite right.

"If your mum doesn't see it I would also be concerned about unsupervised access for her."

@DimidDavilby may I ask, would this be because I shouldn't trust her judgement enough for her to look after them, or that I shouldn't trust her not to invite DB1 over when I'm not there? Because I've never been worried about the former, but the latter is quite disconcerting.