Is this punishment appropriate- SO CROSS

[binkyblinky]

Please help me with an appropriate punishment for my son. I am so, so cross with him.

Yesterday he urinated off the top of his
high bed onto his brothers’ toys and magazines below.

Back story...

My elder two boys share a room. B is 9 and has ADHD. C is 10 and is Autistic. They used to have their own rooms but we had to move them in together as husband needed a home office. We are moving to a new house in about 4 weeks and they will have their own rooms again.

Generally they get on well despite their differences and disabilities. B has medication for his ADHD that wears off early evening. I do have top ups for him but I don’t like to give them every day as they give him a tic. When off his medication, he is obstinate, wild, and completely out of control. When on his medication he is able to concentrate and is an absolute darling.

Last night whilst putting the toddler to bed, I heard a commotion. In their room, a disagreement. My husband ran upstairs and started shouting at B. I went to see what had happened and there was liquid on the carpet. B was saying that it was spit. I put my fingers in it and smelt it, and it was clearly wee. I asked him to tell me the truth and he admitted it was wee.

Infact, he was still up on his bed and had no pants on.

Apparently, C had knocked B’s head on the side of his bed. B not happy about this. (They have been told many a time if there is an argument they MUST come to
tell us.) C insists it was an accident, I am inclined to believe him, his autism means he finds the whole concept of lying Completely alien. instead of calling for mum of dad, B climbed up into his bed and urinated onto the floor. The wee went over a graphic novel and some of C’s dinosaur toys.

I’m absolutely livid and so upset with B. His defence is that C knocked his head. I said he should have come to me if he had been hurt, and weeing on your brother’s toys is disgusting.

I did however manage to remain calm, and sent him to bed.

He needs to be punished. I didn’t smack him but have in the past. I haven’t smacked for years and years and I don’t believe this is something you should do to children. (Please don’t lecture me on this)

I have taken his iPad and PlayStation away, and he will be going to bed at 7pm the same as his 2 year old brother for the next week. He will not be allowed any treats and is helping me with ALL the housework.

Is this enough? I’m so so cross at him, but I also feel bad that perhaps he wouldn’t have done it if I’d have given him his medication. This is still not an excuse for the disgusting thing he did.

I would love your opinions. Please be gentle with me!

[HalfTermHalfTerm]

@vanillandhoney

I don't think you're being fair to your son at all.

You're not giving him the medication he needs and he's in the position of having to share a room with his disabled brother which you also admit causes problems.

IMO it's not fair to punish him beyond cleaning up the mess he made, as most of the situation he's in is totally out of his control.

Lots of children have to share rooms, including neurodiverse children. It’s not unfair for him to have to share with his brother (not his ‘disabled brother‘) if that is the best or only option available at the moment.

I think the original punishment was a bit much OP, it’s good that you’ve reinstated the family time in the evening. I also agree with a PP who said that you don’t need to justify your living arrangements on here. Even if you weren’t moving house in 4 weeks (!) it sounds like you’re doing everything that you can. Good luck with the move!

[binkyblinky]

@Ridiculosity Thankyou so much. Nobody gives you a manual with these things! Which is why I posted on here. Thanks so much. We've had a big cuddle this morning and he's off fishing with daddy this afternoon x

[supersonicginandtonic]

The boys need their own rooms, it's quite obvious. They've turfed a child out of his own safe space so dad can have it as an office. Many parents have been working from home. Not many, I'm sure have taken a bedroom from a child who has additional needs and needs his own space.
I have a son who has ASD and ADHD and he wouldn't cope sharing. I would have made the living room mu bedroom, short term, with a sofa bed to maintain my boys stability. It is so important for children with these needs to have that routine and stability. There are so many other ways you could have worked this.
I'm not meaning to cause offence but you should have made your boys needs your priority. Not your husbands office.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

He'd be paying for a replacement graphic novel out of his money and helping the cleaning process here.

Yes. Or doing the entire cleaning process under supervision.

The iPad/PlayStation removal is also appropriate imo I wouldn't do that. I've always believed in consequences rather than punishments. It's also useful to have plenty of room in reserve.

[binkyblinky]

@supersonicginandtonic this is not the case at all. They were not 'turfed out' because of my husbands office. We had to move all the rooms around because of a problem neighbour causing too much noise at night and keeping B and the baby awake at night. We are not cruel, we are not selfish. We are making the most of a bad situation and are moving house in a month because of it.

[PineappleUpsideDownCake]

Everything ridiculosity says. Youve had some really fab advice on here about not punishing the adhd.

[Octopus37]

I dont have any answers, but also wanted to let you know whilst its not ok, my NT boys have done similar. One time, my oldest was sitting on the toilet having a poo, the youngest needed a wee and decided to wee between his legs, obviously got wee on the older one. The older one then went and rubbed his dirty bum over the youngest ones M&M cushion. I dont know how old the boys were at the time, but think its within the last 5 years. They are now 13 and 10. I cannot even remember what I did to punish him. Hopefully things will get easier for you when they have their own rooms again.

[Peacocking]

Tbh, regardless of any other conditions, boys of this age are dicks anyway.

[MayIJustAsk]

That is disgusting and I think your punishment is fine. Hope you got him to clean it up too.

[Scarlettpixie]

@vanillandhoney

I don't think you're being fair to your son at all.

You're not giving him the medication he needs and he's in the position of having to share a room with his disabled brother which you also admit causes problems.

IMO it's not fair to punish him beyond cleaning up the mess he made, as most of the situation he's in is totally out of his control.

I agree with the above.

Is there no other solution to you husband working in the other bedroom? The boys sharing a room clearly isn’t working and it isn’t their fault.

[KickAssAngel]

OP - I think it sounds like you have a pretty good routine and are doing the right thing with how your current house is arranged. People are just jumping on here to victim blame.

I also have a kid on ADHD meds and you should NOT be over-dosing for a quiet life. As hard as it is, your child needs to eat and sleep, and the meds interfere with those essential functions. My DD is 17 now and it's still a constant balancing act. We have just had to learn to live with her (annoying) fidgets and running around.

I also think that the punishments were too much, but you've realized that. Your son also may not yet have the same response to urine that an adult has. In his mind, it was a quick and easy way to get revenge, rather than a disgusting attack.

Longer-term, can you build in time to talk to him about WHY he shouldn't retaliate. That revenge/retaliation makes it worse - for him as well as everyone else. If he likes football, remind him it's a red card offence to retaliate. Keep having those talks - it will take many, over the years, for him to learn to overcome the impulse to lash out, and to let his frontal lobe do the work of reminding him to go get adult help. His frontal lobe isn't even fully developed yet, so it's a bit like asking a 1 year old to potty train - they're just not there, although you can pave the way to help them learn this.

Again - it actually sounds like you're doing really well. This is a one-off problem, not that you are living in chaos and disaster. 3 kids & a parent WFH in a small house will result in some short-term flash-points. Accept that as part of the rich experience of family life, take a deep breath and then let your own frontal lobe do its work.

[binkyblinky]

Thankyou again for all your responses. The move into the shared room was because of the horrid woman next door and her drinking / druggy parties keeping B and the toddler awake. At this point we also decided to sell up and move to protect the children for her noise and everything that goes with it.

We have done our absolute best and had to make a difficult choice. We just have four more weeks to go!

[Tarantulala]

It sounds like you're doing amazingly OP, and although it might feel like a lifetime now, 4 weeks isn't long and you have done what's best for your children by moving.

[TheLetterZ]

Do consider asking about changing medication to atomoxitine (strattera). Much more stable and no supression of appetite.

Light at the end of the tunnel- you will be in your new house soon. Hope the move goes well.

[GhostCurry]

“I am so, so cross with him.”

“This is still not an excuse for the disgusting thing he did.”

“He needs to know how disgusting his behaviour was.”

Can I gently suggest that your reaction sounds a bit over the top? I get that it’s a stressful situation, but this would be an “eye roll and natural consequences” reaction for me. You seem overly horrified and disgusted to me.

It’s a tough time for you all and I hope it gets easier when you move.

[Bobbiepin]

OP I think you're doing the right thing in regards to rooms as you know it's not long term. Also not topping him up to make your life easier is right especially when it will have longer reaching consequences for him, longer than the bad behaviour. The meds help him to fit in with our preconceived ideas of "normal", you are not depriving him of medication he needs. He will not become unwell without it.

Looking forward, there has been some real advances with meditation, yoga and mindfulness in managing ADHD in older children. Obviously it's very difficult to start and needs willpower to stick with but worth doing to build up strategies that help when meds wear off in the evening. Even just starting with something like mindful monsters to introduce the concept. Do it with both your kids, it's not a punishment for one or a consequence of his ADHD, its something that they both might find helpful.

[starsparkle08]

My son also has autism and adhd . With holding medication isn’t a good thing to do. My son has tics also . I would give him his medication everyday as prescribed . Without this his impulsivity will have contributed to this behaviour .
Don’t make life any harder for yourselves

[Didiplanthis]

God I sympathise. I have 8 Yr old twins ove with ASD one with ADHD. Impulse control and rational response do not feature highly in altercations. I can 100% see this happening in my house. He needs to know this was wrong but I wouldn't use 'longer term' punishment as the sentiment and thought process will have long been forgotten but the anxiety of removal of things that help downtime will probably make everyone's life harder. I'd make him pay for the book, help clean the carpet and add it to the long list of FML moments in your head...

[CottonSock]

I hope the moves goes well. Good that you took steps quickly to sort the living situation

[Phineyj]

I have a somewhat similar child (an only though and this thread has made me grateful for that). KickAss's advice was good. Also are you on a Facebook group for parents of kids with these conditions? I've found that more helpful than general forums like Mumsnet.

[Nacreous]

The situation sounds frustrating and exhausting Op, and I think I sent a slightly grumpy reply earlier - I'm sorrry.

At least you have an end in sight, I expect having their own space will help once you've moved.

[SilenceOfThePrams]

@blinkyblinky, well done! Sounds as though you’ve got things back on track today (I don’t mean that to be patronising). Parenting is hard. Parenting neurodiverse children is harder yet. And parenting neurodiverse children whilst juggling a toddler and working from home and a nightmare neighbour, Covid and a house move is just incredibly impossible!

Four weeks. Four weeks. And things will be so much better.

And God bless melatonin (2 kids on it here too)!

[binkyblinky]

@SilenceOfThePrams your user name is incredible

[Waveysnail]

You need to keep boys seperate when his meds wear off. Iv two adhders and one with asd. On evening I keep my incredibly handful adhder with me as has no self control.

[Waveysnail]

Or asd child hangs out on my bed