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Original poster

Council tax - can anyone advise please?

40 replies

Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 14:14

My niece has just bought a house. As you would expect, the council tax bill has arrived, including £1,800 2 year empty premium. Surely this can’t be right? The property wasn’t actually empty anyway the estate agent told us that the owners’ son was living there and we saw him ( or someone ) drive off as we arrived.
The council have said it is up to her to prove the property wasn’t empty or she is liable for this extra charge.
What do you think?

OP posts:
TeaStory · 25/09/2020 14:15

She can’t be liable for council tax on a property before she owned or lived in it, whether it was empty or not.

kissmysass · 25/09/2020 14:15

She's liable for council tax from the day she became the owner, nothing prior to that. If she wants to, send the council a copy of the completion statement showing the date and tell them to bugger off.

Original poster
Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 14:17

Ha, my thoughts exactly, thank you!
I keep on saying it’s nonsense and that I’ve never heard of that, but she phoned them and they said she was liable,I just can’t believe that can be right.

OP posts:
TheTeenageYears · 25/09/2020 14:21

She is not liable, the debt is with the previous owner and if it isn't as simple as her sending proof of ownership date to the council she needs to get it in writing from the council and push it back to the old owner via her solicitor.

thecartofhelena · 25/09/2020 14:22

empty exemptions are per property, not per owner and are only reset by occupancy, so if the previous owner didn't live there and it has been over a year since anyone lived in it, a 200% charge is correct, advise your Neice to move in as soon as possible and stay there 3 months to reset the occupancy

Original poster
Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 18:05

That’s scary, that she might actually be liable for it’s being empty when she didn’t even own it, let alone live there!

OP posts:
LizB62A · 25/09/2020 18:26

She needs to talk to her solicitor.

SomethingPhishy · 25/09/2020 18:33

Which council is it? I work on the finance side of council tax & the liability is with the person who owns the property from the date they become the owner or the tenant from the date on the tenancy agreement. A new account is created from that date so I cant understand how a new owner can be liable?

Florencex · 25/09/2020 18:40

@thecartofhelena

empty exemptions are per property, not per owner and are only reset by occupancy, so if the previous owner didn't live there and it has been over a year since anyone lived in it, a 200% charge is correct, advise your Neice to move in as soon as possible and stay there 3 months to reset the occupancy
I have never heard of this before. An empty property usually attracts more council tax not an exemption, payable by the legal owner.
ForTheLoveOfCatFood · 25/09/2020 18:42

Letter from the solicitor to show when she purchased the property should do it,
We had a nightmare setting our council tax up as previous owner had debt and we couldn’t set an account up until he paid the debt Hmm
But I cannot see how she’s liable for something that happened before she wormer the house - solicitor should be able to clear it up x

LetMeVent · 25/09/2020 18:44

Has she actually advised the council that she just moved in or is the bill addressed to the previous owner??

RunningWaterfall · 25/09/2020 18:54

I hadn’t heard of this but this seems to be a thing some councils are doing now - this is the best explanation I’ve found www.hastings.gov.uk/council-tax/discounts-exemptions/empty-secondhomes/

Not sure if your niece’s council is the same, but according to this

“As the premium applies to the property, a change of ownership or tenancy will not affect the premium. If when you purchased or leased your property it had already been empty and unfurnished for two years or more, you will have to pay a 200% Council Tax charge, or if empty and unfurnished for 5 years or more you will have to pay 300%.

“The additional charge can only be removed by bringing your property back into use. If you bring your property back into use then notify us of this change, we will need to know your reference number and the date of occupation. We will then arrange for a visit to your property to confirm the information you have provided.”

Original poster
Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 20:05

The bill is in her name, definitely, they have said it is for her to prove that the property wasn’t empty, when we went to view it, the owners son had to leave as only 2 people plus the EA were allowed in at any one time.
It’s Norfolk.
But if the premium applies to the property, surely the previous owners would have been liable? Or they will be getting quadruple bubble? 200% premium from the previous owner and 200% from her? Plus her normal CT liability.

OP posts:
Original poster
Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 20:07

This is the relevant section

Council tax - can anyone advise please?
OP posts:
Original poster
Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 20:10

The solicitor is saying that as far as they are concerned the work they did for her is complete so she will have to set up a new account and instruct them all over again. I have suggested she speak to the EA to get advice. Rubbish’s time to find all of this out (Friday pm)
She won’t be able to do anything now until Monday.

OP posts:
LittleOwl153 · 25/09/2020 20:16

So I assume your niece purchased the property on 11th Sept? When did she move in? If shes moved in I cant see the problem.
Assuming she hasn't moved in then I'd go back to the estate agent / solicitor and get them to confirm it wasnt empty. Presumably whoever 'lived' there wasn't paying their council tax...

filka · 25/09/2020 20:21

Never heard of that rule, but if it is true for your district then I would expect the (local) solicitor to know about it and to include questions about any outstanding liability to be included in the enquiries sent out to the seller.

So I would be telling the solicitor that no, the work they did is not complete as an undiscovered liability has appeared that existed at the completion date and they had better figure out why they didn't discover it.

It may be that you can claim against the solicitor (or their professional indemnity insurance).

thebirthlyhallows · 25/09/2020 20:27

It looks correct if the property has been long term empty prior to her buying it. She needs to move in asap. If a single occupant she will then get 25% disc.

I work in council tax

dancemom · 25/09/2020 20:27

The premium is correct but only for the period she bought the property until her physical move in date.
Any period prior to her owning the property is not her responsibility, sounds like either she or the advisor were confused.

Original poster
Florence1960 · 25/09/2020 20:31

Thanks. So those of you who believe that she is liable - please can you explain why the liability would not lie with the previous owners? She has been told that she has to pay the whole lot. If it is a thing that she has a liability from the date she bought it, I can understand - but the property wasn’t empty! It was empty on the day of completion, not sure exactly when the previous owners moved out though.

OP posts:
Elieza · 25/09/2020 20:35

If it’s true and the debt stays with the property then surely that’s a charge the lawyer should have searched for and told her she was liable for?

If it’s rubbish and the debt stays with the previous owners then she shouldn’t have to pay.

Perhaps the way forward is to speak to the citizens advice in the area as they will have heard of things like this before. Or a different lawyer and ask if when buying a house that has council tax arrears that’s something he would look for if he was your lawyer in the purchase as the debt would be passed in to you and see what they say?

If that’s correct then perhaps the law society should be able to advise whether he should have checked and told you.

thebirthlyhallows · 25/09/2020 20:37

Is she living there? The bill reads as though it is empty. She needs to tell them she has moved in

bungleberry · 25/09/2020 20:38

That bill is from 11 Sept 2020, nothing to do with earlier owners.

It is being a charged a premium of 100% on the basis its not being lived in.

If she is living in the property, she needs to advise them and they will adjust it accordingly, from the date she moved in.

If she moves in, in the future the bill will be adjusted from the date she moves in. It will then reduce to normal rates.

Some Councils charge up to 100% more for a property being empty.

Bargebill19 · 25/09/2020 20:40

I know that an empty property is liable if it lies empty for over a year in Birmingham- but the bill belongs to the person who owns the property during that time - it doesn’t ‘die’ or transfer with the house when sold iyswim.
Seems a bit daft to have the bill transfer with ownership as it doesn’t work that way with other house debt.
But, given the way councils work ...
(Shameless place marking.)

bethany39 · 25/09/2020 20:42

The bill is from the date she completed, 11 Sep. It's nothing to do with the previous owner.

Is the property empty now - that's all that matters? If not she just needs to tell them that and get the additional charge removed.

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