FACE VISORS DON'T WORK - obviously

[Browneyesbigbum]

So today a study shows that face visors don't work. You don't say - wasn't it pretty obvious given the minuscule size of virus particles! It's just a virtue signalling - look at us/me aren't we great for saving lives blah blah.....
I mean SD, hand washing naturally but even masks (which I wear to protect others) really isn't going to protect ourselves. The virus particles are very very very small - but it does stop SOME of the aerosols.... but again virtue signalling in the main.

Basically tract and trace and isolate all infected. Isolate after foreign travel too.

YABU - we thoughT visors worked and wear them (hairdressers/shops etc, we still think they work
YANBU - of course they don't work - it's OBVIOUS

'Study co-author, Professor Manhar Dhanak, said: 'From this latest study, we were able to observe that face shields are able to block the initial forward motion of the exhaled jet, however, aerosolised droplets expelled with the jet are able to move around the visor with relative ease.
'Over time, these droplets can disperse over a wide area in both lateral and longitudinal directions, albeit with decreasing droplet concentration.'
Lead author Professor Siddhartha Verma added: 'Face shields have noticeable gaps along the bottom and the sides, and masks with exhalation ports include a one-way valve which restricts airflow when breathing in, but allows free outflow of air.

'The inhaled air gets filtered through the mask material, but exhaled breath passes through the valve unfiltered.'

The research concluded that face shields are not as effective as regular face masks. '

There's some evidence that glasses might be protective isn't there? Visors are to prevent aerosols into the eyes in the same way.

How can it be virtue signalling for say, retail & hospitality staff to wear face masks/coverings when BJ said yesterday it's going to be mandatory from tomorrow? Virtue signalling implies an element of choice doesn't it?

Virtue signalling is a strange way to describe people following a legal requirement

In risk management, there is rarely one viable countermeasure that effectively mitigates the risk 100%. More often, multiple mitigations are employed that each reduce the risk partially and collectively aim to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. It gets rather tiresome repeatedly seeing people ignorantly proclaiming that because something isn't 100% effective then it must be pointless.

Take travelling in cars. It's a potentially very dangerous activity. Cars can crash and when they do people can be seriously injured or killed. So, over time, a range of things have been implemented to make our roads safer. Seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones, driver training and licensing, speed limits and traffic calming, alcohol limits and anti-lock brakes to name a few. Not one of those things on their own would make driving meaningfully safer but collectively they do a pretty good job. We could ban motor vehicles altogether and completely mitigate the risks but then we would lose the benefits and opportunities that road transport offers. It's the same with covid countermeasures. There is no silver bullet but what we do have, or are trying to have, is a range of things that together aim to reduce the risk of infection down to manageable levels.

the replies actually cheered me up, thanks.

Love mumsnet for the myriad of opinions and of course the wrath

Those saying masks don’t work forget that all masks are not the same.
A properly fitted ffp3 medical mask filters out most things, but an ill fitting surgical mask or similar will be far less effective. Visors are only really worthwhile when worn alongside a mask, on their own, pretty useless.

Mask + Visor = Yes

Visor alone = Pointless in terms of protection (but some people might have valid reasons for doing this)

As staff in a school we wear them they prefer this over masks. Children see our faces. Some need to read lips. Also I like to smile at the child I do one on one with, it’s important he sees my face also it worked great when the kids threw a ball my way the other day and smacked that off instead of my glasses, multi use.

It's just a piece of published research. The bit in the quotation marks is taken from the research paper, if that helps.

I made it more complicated with adding my waffle on

I wear a visor to protect myself from any vocal arseholes who might take issue with the fact that I can't safely wear a mask. As a young, physically healthy woman they wouldn't see what the issue is and I can't be bothered to argue it or go through the farce of hyperventilating around the supermarkets yet again.

About the best it can do is stop me directly splatting someone if I cough/ sneeze.

There is evidence on mild benefits of surgical quality masks. Not so much for the average minimum requirement, here's one I wore earlier, must wash soon, face covering that's been dutifully pulled out of a pocket.

I'm on board with keeping your distance and staying outdoors as much as is feasible.

@OldQueen1969

Sorry to hear you're having a tough day. I hope it gets better soon.

Mumsnet for lots of us is just light relief from the day to day nonsense of the present situation 🙃

@justanotherneighinparadise

Virtue signalling is a strange way to describe people following a legal requirement

Exactly. Really weird.

Visors without a mask are utterly pointless for the public in general.

The point of a visor is to stop transmission through the eyes. Which they do work for. I work in a job where I cannot socially distance from my colleagues. We have to work in close proximity so we wear mask, visor, apron and gloves. Believe me it is not fun working 10 hours in full ppe and most certainly not for virtue signalling!

Obviously they don't work all the time in every instance. But they work sometimes and in some instances. Hence instead of getting 100,200,400,800 in a few days in a certain city we might instead get 50,80,130,230 in a few days in a certain city. Have they saved humanity? No. Have they made things a bit better? Yes. Geddit?

@YouBringLightInToADarkPlace

Masks don't really work either, as you say, it's all just virtue signalling.

Sounds like you are the type of person who we as a community have to worry about .

You don't say - wasn't it pretty obvious given the minuscule size of virus particles! It's just a virtue signalling - look at us/me aren't we great for saving lives blah blah...

The tone of your OP was OK apart from the sneeriness of ^

You know, fine you're the world expert obviously but actually getting some scientific evidence behind the different types of PPE to make comparisons and work out which PPE being made available to us is most or least effective - including combinations - is a very good thing.

Don't stop the science because you think you already know the answer!

Talking about masks ^

Masks don't work either. If oxygen molecules can pass through them, then so can the virus. It is all a big con.

Nobody has claimed that masks and visors prevent any transmission.

The aim is to reduce transmission. The alternative is we all throw our hands in their air and say 'they're not 100% effective so let's do nothing but hope people wash their hands'.

I work in a shop for 9 hours a day. I now have to wear a mask or visor.

I choose visor because it is the most comfortable option for me and it abides by the law.

It may not be the most effective option but it's the one that works in my role and allows the elderly and those that rely on lip reading a better chance of understanding me. I talk quietly naturally so I'm at a disadvantage anyway. I also have a perspex screen between me and the customer if that makes a difference (which also affects communication).

I'd like people to stop judging others choices personally.

When I last ate out the people bringing our food to the table were wearing visors and holding the plates directly underneath so their breath would have condensed and dropped down onto the food. Didn’t make me want to return.

@redbushtea

Masks don't work either. If oxygen molecules can pass through them, then so can the virus. It is all a big con.

Simply not true:

A SARS-Cov-2 virus is about 125 nanometers in diameter. An oxygen molecule is about 0.152 nanometers

Non valved FFP2 (n95) and FFP3 (n99) respirator type masks offer the best protection to both the wearer and others. (when fitted and disposed of correctly).
Valved FFP2 (n95) and FFP3 (n99) respirator type masks offer the best protection to the wearer only (when fitted and disposed of correctly).
Face coverings, fabric masks, scarves, surgeons paper masks, etc offer limited protection to the wearer and some protection against your germs for others.
Face visors are useless for wearer and for others, though, they possibly offer some eye protection.
Lots of decent research/evidence available to show these points are accurate.

Op, of course they still allow particles in and out.

Does the study mention viral load because I'm pretty sure, the visor would either protect me from an in the face sneeze of covid or protect the person on other side if I sneezed or coughed because it pushes the aerosol away.

Rather than directly into someone's face! Their eyes, up their nose.

The small spray when people speak etc etc etc