Wibu to ask for more money?

[Lemononachair]

I work in catering and have been furloughed since lockdown was announced. I am desperate to get back to work as I'm so fed up of sitting at home and need to get earning money again.

My workplace was pretty good to furlough me in fairness. I had only been working there 6 weeks when they had to close and had not gotten a contract yet as they told me I would get one when my probation period finished. Probation period was to be 3 months. Because I was furloughed only 6 weeks in I still haven't technically completely my probation. I was told that my furlough would be based on a hours of 36pw even though I actually did 40+. Of course with no contract I couldn't really contest this and I was just happy to be getting any money from them.

Pay rate was supposed to be NMW until probation completed when it would go up to £9ph. At the time MW was (I think) £8.21 but obviously it's now increased to £8.80ish so my proposed 'wage increase' is now virtually none. In addition, the place has had extensive building work done during our closure so is now double the size. We have a completely new menu, a new kitchen team and they have cut staff numbers dramatically so they basically want to change the whole way they operate. They also want us to make everything from scratch and prepare everything ourselves in order to cut costs. This all means of course that my workload is going to increase a huge amount. I've also been asked to 'multitask', as in work in other areas when needed so I'll effectively be doing 2 different jobs. The job description has changed a lot from when I started.

I'm no longer happy to do all this work for minimum wage, even to the end of my probation period as I feel this is a bit of a piss take for a skilled and qualified member of staff to have to do such a huge amount and cover other people's positions too. Wibu to ask for more money now that the job has changed?

@VytaminSea

The OP never even insinuated they were a professional chef until the massive drip feed mid thread. In that case yes you could ask for more money. Or go and work somewhere else where you are not expected to do someone else's job.

Catering covers a vast area of jobs. We aren't all physic and didn't to now the OP was a chef! It is not unusual to be covering food prep and waiting tables in smaller cafes and establishments.

Actually her OP did say that her workplace now want her to make everything from scratch, which is a massive change. No drip feeding.

You get paid more than that working the shop floor in Lidl. Of course you should be paid more OP but you need to go back, get the lay of the land and then justify it.

The NMW increase in April has no bearing on your furlough pay if you have been continuously furloughed since before April.

Guidance below is:
Your employer will receive a grant to cover up to 80% of your wages up to a maximum of £2,500 per month, which they should then pass on in full to you (they can top it up if they wish, but they do not need to do this).
If you are a salaried employee who receives regular pay, they should claim a grant of 80% of your salary as at 28 February 2020, subject to the £2,500 cap. This means that if your gross (before tax) pay in February was £1,231.50 (based on your contracted hours x £8.21), then in April 2020, your employer will receive a grant of 80% of £1,231.50, which is £985.20.
If your pay varies, AND you have been in the job for over a year then, subject to the £2,500 cap, your employer can claim the higher of:

80% of the same month’s earning from the previous year

80% of average monthly earnings from the 2019/20 tax year

If this applies, this means that what your employer can claim will be based on what you were paid in April 2019, or on your pay for the 2019/20 tax year – both of which will have presumably been based on the old £8.21 minimum wage rate.

All of this means, essentially, that you won't get the pay rise that you may have been expecting. However, when your period of furlough ends, and you return to work, then you should be paid the £8.72 rate from that point.

Note, that being paid less than £8.72 during the period of furlough, does not mean that you will have been underpaid the minimum wage because you are not actually working, click here to read this government guidance explanation.

I swear there were paragraphs before I posted that!

See this is where I'm confused @kissmysass, my pay is supposedly based on 36hrs x MW but I have only been receiving just over £800. By your calculations that still means I'm being underpaid doesn't it?

Just to add I'm not salaried but my hours don't vary because the restaurant is only open certain hours so there's no real opportunity for overtime. So it's supposed to be based on 36hrs every week, at least that's what I was told!

@SleepingStandingUp I don't have an issue with being employed as a chef and being expected to cook 😂 What I do have a problem with is being expected to wash up, serve, make coffee and wait tables in addition to my regular duties with no extra pay. Tbh before lockdown we were busy enough that even as it was I wouldn't have had time to do all that and be in the kitchen. Plus now we are expected to do extra there as well!

I don't have an issue with helping out where I can when I have time. I'd rather than than everyone struggle. I just don't want it to be an expectation and then get told off if I can't physically manage it. I supposed only time will tell.

Well honestly in your position I'd risk the telling off.

Lemon why aren't you making coffee?
Because I'm flambéing 10 ducks in cherry sauce
Well I need the coffee making!
So what did you want me to do with the ducks which will burn without me doing whatever people do to flambé a duck?
Oh yeah, carry on.

If they pull you out when the kitchen is busy then they're not being very professional and you're better off of there. Bit that doesn't affect the pay.

If you were acting "up" as such then you'd warrant more money but asking you to take on what is considered "lower" status jobs won't.

Anyway good luck with getting back, I think once you're back it'll be fine

Yeah I suppose there's only one way to find out! I'm just nervous about the workload and the extras but you're all right in that it could be super quiet and will be no trouble to do everything they're asking.

If it is busy then my probation will be due to end mid November, just before the Christmas rush starts so maybe that will be the ideal time to ask about a pay rise if necessary 😄

Sorry OP I think I was confused about the situation from your earlier posts—so you were the junior chef in the kitchen, now you’re going to be splitting your time with front of house, when needed?

I think you’re going to struggle then to argue for extra surely, because wouldn’t that mean you’re now splitting your time between your trained work and work that would normally be paid at minimum wage? And if you’re still working the same amount of hours, I don’t see where the argument for extra money for being flexible comes from?

@kissmysass is correct, the new NMW would not have come into effect as you were not actually working at that time. An employer only needs to up the NMW when you actually return to work.

Personally, I think you're in a delicate position. There will be many people looking for jobs and taking jobs below what they would usually be worth money wise, in order to survive. I would think very carefully before rocking the boat unless you could survive without a job.

This is all a shitty employers dream isn't it, treat people like crap as they will be grateful for any job, and it seems they have the support of a lot on here. I agree you aren't in a good position to be negotiating, but when you return you need to make sure that your pay is in line with the legal min (which is crazy when you are a qualified chef with 10 years experience), and perhaps rationally ask about the plan for the future for you. Yes restaurants are struggling in the main, but let's not support employment standards slipping to a lower level.

I think this entire situation, including furlough, has made businesses look at where savings can be made. I managed, through sheer necessity, to cover the roles of a team of four in their entirety during furlough. This clearly isn’t sustainable long term, but, as people have slowly returned to work, it has become apparent that some in the business have been cruising for a long time.

There is no place in our office now for people who do not want to work to their full capacity. And this isn’t just coming from our employers, those of us who worked so hard through furlough have no patience for laziness or excuses either. We know what can be achieved and no longer wish to work with anyone who can’t or won’t deliver.

Unfortunately it is an employers market at the minute. I have sadly seen some excellent people who I very much admire in our industry made redundant recently after years of service. I feel very lucky to still have a job, although I do feel as though I have more than earned my job security over the past few months. That isn’t to say that you aren’t being underpaid or shouldn’t ask for more money, just that you need to demonstrate clearly that you are worth it.

YABU bearing in mind you have worked there 5 minutes basically, have had a long time off and are now unhappy about a situation you haven’t even experienced . I vote you start looking for a new job, you then might adjust your mindset. For key workers like myself it’s been full on for months with no respite, it’s safe to say l won’t be asking or getting a pay rise. Despite going above and beyond my job description

I know someone who was on furlough, had worked there 10 years but ended up with no job to go back to

@LuaDipa it very much in an employers market at the moment. Personally lm keeping my head down and working hard

I'm interested to know where this place is OP. Not in a disparaging way at all: I also work in hospitality and understand the pressures. In order to be covid safe my restaurant is running at 40% cap, reduced hours and reduced menu, but there's no way it could function by merging boh with foh. On a Monday we still need 3 in kitchen and 2 + manager on floor. The model your place is proposing sounds unsustainable

For key workers like myself it’s been full on for months with no respite, it’s safe to say l won’t be asking or getting a pay rise.

The most annoying phrase to come out of all of this is kEy WoRkErS

@Tarantulala it may be an annoying phrase but healthcare is fairly important at the moment most would agree

@EL8888 but it’s not relevant to the OP, is it?

Just because you’re not getting a pay rise doesn’t mean OP shouldn’t try and getting paid about NMW.

@Havaiana l think it most definitely is relevant. It’s misguided and unrealistic talking about pay rises in most lines of work at the moment. Whether you’re going above and beyond or not. Lots of jobs are precarious and employers will be making some tough decisions

@EL8888 so everyone else should put up with poor working conditions because you chose a job in healthcare? The mind boggles. Also revenue from restaurants etc helps to pay for the NHS, I hate the idea that some people are more valuable because of the job they choose to/can do. Do HCPs do a challenging job that's of value to society? Yep. Does that mean no one else should push for better work conditions for themselves? No.

And also key workers encompassed a huge range of people.

That’s right op, accept the pittance like a good little oik and don’t try to improve working conditions or pay rate. Don’t forget to curtsy to your betters either with the appropriate ma’am or Sir 🤔

Only on fucking Mumsnet.

So you were going to be paid £9/hour after your probation. You will still be getting £9/hour no matter what the mw was increased to.
You have been very lucky they have paid you without a contract, and kept you on considering they have laid of other staff! I would just be grateful to have a job.

@Tarantulala who says l chose it, l may well live in an isolated area, where it’s a large employer and l can easily get there? I might be a band 1 or band 8? Who knows. For clarity where l work the working conditions aren’t great (put it this way l try to not outwardly snigger, when people say a 9 hour day is a lot -l have done numerous 13+ hours days in a row).

It’s not a race to the bottom but we all need to be realistic about the way things are at the moment. Whatever fields people work in it’s a tough time -hospitality, legal, travel, transport etc. My fiancé only told me the other week he’s not getting a pay rise this year, we laughed simultaneously as neither of us expected it anyway. It’s not the year for pay rises it’s safe to say