To SCREAM from the rooftops that furlough needs to be extended at least 6 more months

[Marg33t]

Furlough saves jobs and saves people's health. Why is the extension not announced today?

People are losing their jobs at a rapid rate as it's near to the 30-45 days for consultations for redundancies. It needs to be extended or more people will lose their jobs. Other counties are running it until next year and it makes me feel sick that we aren't protecting and saving jobs!

@Lexilooo

How about a four day week? Spread the work there is around a bit more?

There was a marketing guru on The Museum of Curiosity a while back who proposed that. The modelling showed it wouldn't cost companies more (in fact it would save them money) as well as boosting things like High St. shopping.

Obviously never going to happen, because we are a Conservative country and therefore detest change.

Still it might work in a more progressive country like Sweden or Denmark.

Re part time, I read something the other week suggesting a lot of companies did that in the 08 recession. It would be better than the other alternative of reducing headcount whilst piling more and more work on the remaining staff.

Given that the taxpayers have already spent enough on Brexit to own an international space station, it seems there's plenty they can pay for.

so how many people on this thread voted the present government in, and what exactly did you expect?

@Lexilooo

How about a four day week? Spread the work there is around a bit more?

It wouldn't make much difference. People are generally so much less efficienct when working full-time that we achieve the same in part-time hours.

There are obviously exceptions, like jobs where you need a physical presence (security guards) or where time directly correlates to productivity (factory line).

I wonder how many of the people against furlough being extended are also shouting for pubs, cinemas etc to close, whilst sitting wfh in their naice middle class jobs that they think are secure. Nothing is secure though. I was convinced mine was but still got made redundant.

Many people didn't really give a shit about others who weren't entitled to furlough, or who fell through the cracks because they were lucky enough to get financial help. Now they want more help. Unfortunately it's time for everyone to get real and face the same uncertain, unfair future

This is what I was going to say pretty much. I've always up until now been very vocal about support for others but I've had exactly the same experience about people not giving a shit about my loss of income and no Govt support despite 30+ years of continuous tax paying (and possibly having to pay in the future for all the support other people got). It's difficult to fight for something more for those who've already received support when they've looked away from us.

No, we need people to stop being selfish and stick to the bloody rules so that businesses can operate in a reduced manner so at least able to pay some of their staff.

I say that as someone who's husband has been made redundant from a well paid job after a furlough period which has already done serious damage to our finances. He needs to be able to get back to work and to do this the virus needs to be under control (not eradicated, that won't be possible) and it's people spreading the virus un-necessarily socialising that's doing my head in.

Don't get me wrong, we had a short staycation, we've eaten out to help out (just twice) for 2 recent birthdays (but just our family of 4) but only in restaurants that we felt were sticking to the rules and had put in place good infection control measures but I've gone back to shopping online because there's just too many people in shops without masks and shops unwilling/unable to enforce the rules. Don't get me started on unnecessary socialising. I haven't seen either of my siblings since February. although we've skyped/phoned and I'm the only one of us who has actually visited my elderly parents who we all doubt would survive Covid given their various co-morbidities. When things were looking better in the summer I even went inside, instead of dropping groceries and chatting in the garden. That stopped since schools re-opened as I can't take the risk of the kids and us being asymptomatic spreaders of Covid.

I have a social conscience, I just wished others did and could put up with less social life. If some businesses can be open but others can't then perhaps the government could just offer assistance to the ones it wants to only operate at a reduced level.

Over 300 redundancies announced at the charity where I work today, I'm guessing many of those are still furloughed. Very difficult times.

@TabbyStar precisely (25 years of paying higher rate tax here).

Those who have benefitted from furlough have been very lucky, yet they don't seem to see it that way. They just want more, but enough is enough and they will now need to stand next to the likes of you and I and make the best they can of a shit situation.

@PablosHoney

I’m not jealous or angry with people who were previously furloughed that would make no sense, it was not a choice and must have been an uncertain time, I do wonder whether we can afford another 6 months.

Both of us were relieved not to have been furloughed and able to work. I'm sure many of the furloughed saw the writing on the wall with their jobs from the beginning.

A horrible situation to be in.

the other option is to allow thousands of people to go onto UC, which will not sustain their private rents (which are generally unaffordable as e.g. single people or even, in many cases, as two people on UC) or mortgages, when social housing waits are already years in some areas

Maybe the government will be forced to do something about the shocking cost of housing, the lack of affordable housing and the appallingly amount that people on benefits are supposed to be able to live on.

Or maybe they just won't give a shit and will continue to (metaphorically) step over the homeless while they're on their way to the opera.

Still, this is what people voted for - rising poverty and homelessness, and cuts in public services. It seems they prefer that to paying more tax, at least until the moment they're not paying any tax, because they're out of a job.`

When unemployment was rising in the late 70s, the government of the day invested massively in training schemes, so people could learn the skills that were scarce and in demand. Today, it's hard to know what skills are in demand and can be taught in a year or two, and even then, I don't think the govt would want to pay for it.

the other option is to allow thousands of people to go onto UC,

The UC system isn't fit for purpose as it is, let alone increasing it's workload beyond it's design capacity.

Remember, it was never intended to actually help people. It was intended to allow politicians to point at it and say "look how we are helping people" as they slashed benefits and access to support.

They'd have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that pesky Covid.

@AriettyHomily

Are you paying for it?

Of OP is furloughed, they are likely to be a tax payer, so yes, they absolutely are paying for it. What exactly is your point?

Or maybe they just won't give a shit and will continue to (metaphorically) step over the homeless while they're on their way to the opera.

That is a disgusting and horrible thing to suggest.

They move the homeless out of the way. And arrest them if they get arsey.

If furlough is stopped , my neighbour might look for work and stop the endless parties.
For 6 months theyve been off work and flouted the guidance/rules the whole time too. Numerous visitors, parties and bbqs throughout lockdown, stated they dont like masks and bought lanyards off ebay.
They even went on holiday to Spain and totally ignored isolation guidance.
They're calling for more lockdown and furlough.... living the dream.

Then another 6 months and then another. We need to bite the bullet and stop propping things up. It’s simply not sustainable

Because furlough would ultimately, further down the line, bring us all to our knees. We’re already resigned to the fact that taxes will increase, along with public services and costs. But another six months of furlough would cost far too much to sustain and keep our heads above water. Furlough was always a temporary solution,, and a generous one.

Honestly can someone tell op that the magic money tree does not exist, and never has

Actually, the historic low interest rates we have at the moment are pretty close to a magic money tree. The government could issue medium to long term bonds at a rate attractive enough to raise shedloads of money, but they won't do that, because it's borrowing and they'd rather help out their disaster capitalist chums who are hedging their money in funds that are frantically shorting the pound.

There definitely needs to be further assistance for the industries still prevented from reopening, but I don't believe the wider furlough scheme should be extended as is. It doesn't make sense to me (and isn't fair, really) for people to continue being paid 80% of the salary that they just happened to be earning by virtue of being in that specific job at that specific time lockdown began, indefinitely, especially as a huge number of these jobs will never be returned to. Many still on furlough are effectively now unemployed and it's really not all that fair that the money they're being paid by the government is so much more than any other unemployed person claiming Universal Credit. In the short term it made sense, but after 6 months it no longer does.

Since there's going to be massive rise in unemployment and realistically no short-to-mid-term prospects of jobs being created en masse, we do need to have a real open conversation about how much money people really need to live on, and make sure that everybody without a job has enough money to live some sort of reasonable life on.

It's seems like 'my neighbour was on furlough and just partied the whole time' is the new 'family on benefits with 24 kids and counting'. It's failing to see a specific example is not necessarily indicative of the bigger picture.

Most people I knew who were furloughed were hugely stressed about it - 50% of those furloughed at my company have been made redundant. Awful to be sitting around doing nothing knowing the writings on the wall, with a very difficult job search ahead of you (events in this case).

It's all very well saying they should be looking for other jobs, but there will be huge amounts of people who CAN'T find other jobs. We have a massive unemployment crisis coming and the poverty, repossessions and mental health impact that comes with it. I find a lot of the views here narrow minded and heartless (and shows up many posters to have no idea what they are talking about).

I'll shout it again GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS NOT THE SAME AS A HOUSEHOLD BUDGET

We can (as others have pointed out) find huge amounts of money when there is a politically motivated impetus. I'm not saying furlough as it was is the correct answer, but absolutely we should be supporting those that have been hardest hit by this crisis (along with everyone else who is being shafted by the benefits system). A move to some kind of universal income for all seems to me the most sensible and likely to stimulate the economy, but I dare say it's far too sensible for this government.

That so many on this thread turn a blind eye about the massive waste of money that is Brexit, yet coldly declare the millions that will be affected by these circumstances completely out of their control should just get on with it and go on UC is pretty depressing.

I'm a bit confused as to why so many people are saying furlough has to end because the taxpayers can't afford it....who is paying for the increased benefits bill then? Given that the furloughed are paying tax, if redundancies continue and those furloughed lose their jobs then where is the extra tax going to come from? Which is going to cost more in the long term?

They may be a vaccine in 6 months or so, the economy will then improve greatly, as it did in july august.... BUT if there is many less companies around next spring, then there won't be a recovery.

We'll have to start all over again.

Pay now or pay twice.

Benefits, homelessness, long term unemployment, increased crime & drug use will all cost far more than a targeted furlough scheme.

If Germany has extended furlough, then you can bet your last euro, its being done for good reason.

I suspect though that people don't want it because they are jealous of those who got paid to sit at home, rather than the long term benefits to the UK.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

I'm a bit confused as to why so many people are saying furlough has to end because the taxpayers can't afford it....who is paying for the increased benefits bill then? Given that the furloughed are paying tax, if redundancies continue and those furloughed lose their jobs then where is the extra tax going to come from? Which is going to cost more in the long term?

I'm confused as to why you think people should be paid 80% of their salary to stay at home indefinitely?

@jasjas1973 you're absolutely right that it's in all of our interests to keep as many people spending and financially viable now as possible - pay now or pay even more later with a prolonged and difficult economic recovery when we have the virus under control.

But again, people just don't seem to get it. It's all 'why should we pay for that person when I have to work'.

I don't think furlough pay should be used by companies to pay their redundancy payments. That just takes the piss.