To SCREAM from the rooftops that furlough needs to be extended at least 6 more months

[Marg33t]

Furlough saves jobs and saves people's health. Why is the extension not announced today?

People are losing their jobs at a rapid rate as it's near to the 30-45 days for consultations for redundancies. It needs to be extended or more people will lose their jobs. Other counties are running it until next year and it makes me feel sick that we aren't protecting and saving jobs!

Even if they extend people will just lose their jobs after.
My Nephew and Niece have both been made redundant last week.
Furloughed hasn't helped them keep their jobs so don't know how extending will help.

@Coconut2010

Maybe part of the solutions would be helping these workers to retrain

for/as what ? We can't all be social media influencers.

And quite aside from the fact that there's no use building squat if no one can afford to buy it as they've all lost their jobs, even if you had an army of (re)skilled workers just chomping at the bit to ... build solar panels ... unless there are companies that are able to take them on, it's another waste of time.

People like simple analogies and examples ... maybe we should see the current situation as a train running on tracks that have just left solid ground and are now stretching over a canyon like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. No amount of pushing coal into the locomotive is going to stop it plummeting to earth.

@Coconut2010

It shouldn't be extended, not just because the government can't afford it but it would also be further delaying the inevitable. Let's be clear many of these jobs don't exist anymore so rather than staying at home idle whilst being paid, these people should be encouraged to be looking for other jobs in different industries or locations (i.e. not city centers where housing is expensive anyway).

They should, but any such encouragement also needs to be underpinned by the knowledge that, for the short term future at least, there are just not going to be as many jobs going as there were before all this started. Lots of jobs are based on people doing things, things they're not currently able to do. We aren't going to have as much work available until the worst of this shitstorm has passed.

So by all means encourage people who worked in eg high street retail to think about other options available to them and apply for other roles. That's sensible. But also be aware that the numbers don't match and not everyone who loses their job is going to be able to earn money for a bit. Because some of the jobs they might otherwise go to aren't going to exist again for a while.

Furlough was necessary in full lockdown. I get that people are being asked to work from home where possible but most sectors are now reopen.

Harsh as it may seem some businesses won’t survive and to be brutal it’s better they close now, with redundancies and the claiming of benefits that will follow than drag on for another six months at taxpayers expense paying 80% and then the business still fold

We should have invested the billions in staffing the new hospitals and let supply and demand deal with the economy. If we'd taken the same approach as Sweden the economy would still have tanked a bit as people would make their own decisions on risk, as they did in Sweden. And we'd by now have the health care capacity to deal with it. People who lost jobs could have retrained as HCPs, instead of taxpayers propping up jobs that won't come back for four years.

The jobs being advertised now just don't seem to be on the same scale as before and people rightly so are now clinging onto their jobs for dear life.

Which will bring it's own problems as those sort of people tend to cling on to old ideas too. You can end up fossilising 2019 ways of working.

We should have invested the billions

This is the UK. Think again.

As a 20-something with massive student loans who has been working in a stressful job the whole way through, I sure am looking forward to a lifetime of tax hikes to pay off everyone else’s furlough...

[quote BoggledBudgie]@CleverCatty that is an extremely heartwarming view to see someone take. Not many seem to realise it’s people like that that’ll be the first to lose their jobs, and they’re the ones the least able to afford to do so.[/quote]
BoggledBudgie - I'm not quite sure how they could increase local work in my area - small town - potentially I think businesses could and have been set up. A few years ago my DB's then GF had a small finance company which only left the area when she emigrated abroad.

I think potentially a few people could set up co-operatives if they liked - but actually setting up businesses in offices where people have to travel to and from - even in a small town - I think most people are scared of doing so. The estate agents etc are doing it because they have to do it and there does seem to be a lot of work for them right now. Local solicitors I'm imagining would WFH but they also have offices where I live and accountants too, am unsure whether they would like their staff to WFH or come into the office.

I have noticed that lots of shops in the area have either gone to part cafe/part shop - e.g. delis/cafes/restaurants - or one expensive clothing shop which has another branch nearby has now kept it's flagship branch but is selling clothes online and via instagram etc and delivering abroad, factor in rent increases locally against e.g. a warehouse cost and it's a no brainer. But local premises need to think about lease of shops - there's about 3-4 shops standing empty now and about 2 have stood empty for at least a year if not more.

Healthcare is good, also train more TA and a big boost to upgrade existing housing stock with environmental credentials. In fact our water and sweage infrastructure is getting old. Perhaps a big spend on that too.
In the depression our town built a lido.

@SerendipityJane

The jobs being advertised now just don't seem to be on the same scale as before and people rightly so are now clinging onto their jobs for dear life.

Which will bring it's own problems as those sort of people tend to cling on to old ideas too. You can end up fossilising 2019 ways of working.

SerendipityJane - well of course people tend to cling onto old ideas too and you end up fossilising 2019 ways of working but since lockdown everyone has learned e.g. WFH ways and how to use Zoom, MS Teams etc.

All the economics experts out in force.

@Weave

All the economics experts out in force.

Well they certainly aren't in government.

and then listening to my neighbours having a "holiday" in their garden whilst doing up their house and having endless bbqs and drinking most nights and on almost full pay for doing nothing

Me too! All the people worried about income NOW have had SIX MONTHS to make alternative arrangements, or to find a Plan B to earn money in the event of job loss. But everyone wanted to paaarrrTAY.

But most businesses are open again , as are schools and childcare providers. Not sure why furlough would need extended unless schools shut again. I've been back at work working closely with colleagues and clients since the end of June as we're an essential business and can't work from home.

Not everyone, but don't let that stop you. Fucksake, this site is nothing but offensive fucking generalisations now. Wankers.

But most businesses are open again oh good, so live events are back up and running? Yay!

I think the only way I would support a furlough extension is if it were targeted at specific sectors and capped at a lower amount to bring it more in line with UC. It’s so galling that I’ve been busting my ass all this time (key worker) to get paid less than people sitting around doing nothing.

@SerendipityJane

“Well they certainly aren't in government.”

You can say that again.

I'm not in favour of indefinite furlough, not least as it's been shamelessly exploited by a lot of organisations and also has left a lot of people behind who fell through the substantial cracks in the original criteria. However, the lockdown would have been the logical opportunity to introduce a UBI and I lobbied government to that effect, both directly and via my useless, dim and extremely right-wing MP - unsuccessfully obviously. I also agree with pp that the government should be bankrolling a reskilling programme.

Well they certainly aren't in government.

Snort.

It's a difficult one, because furlough at the moment includes some people who are not only about to be made redundant, but whose jobs just aren't going to exist again. Most people would agree that there's no particular benefit in pretending they are, regardless of whether they believe those individuals should receive more financial support than UC currently offers.

But then there are also jobs in sectors that have essentially been frozen, but that there's no reason to assume we won't be needing again in a year or two. Things like travel, weddings, theatre: people are very likely to still want to do these activities again as soon as they're allowed to, whereas that isn't true of high street retail or daily commuting. It's possible, especially in the absence of a lot of the alternatives, that the best thing might well be to mothball those sectors that still have a future so that the knowledge and experience is still available again once we want it. I'm not saying it's definite but it's a discussion that's worth having.

A better use would be to shout from the roof tops that this can not continue as it is, and we need to start integrating back into society and get the economy moving. Look at the actual death rates, understand that they are negligible relative to the economic destruction on its way.

ONS data week 37 deaths, 99 mention Covid, that reflects 1% of all deaths.

This government is willing to destroy the economy for the above.

Think the resentment, evident on this thread, towards those who were previous furloughed is pretty pointless and misguided.

People were furloughed precisely because they weren’t able to attend their jobs for the duration of lockdown, however were expected to return once it was over. They weren’t unemployed and if the economy was looking precarious why would they look for a new, less secure job when they already had one?

Why should you harbour resentment because people sat in the garden during that time or drank alcohol? They couldn’t leave the house. What were they supposed to do for 16 hours a day (when not sleeping)?

I actually think they should extend it but only for certain sectors - hospitality, theatres etc and aviation spring to mind.