To SCREAM from the rooftops that furlough needs to be extended at least 6 more months

[Marg33t]

Furlough saves jobs and saves people's health. Why is the extension not announced today?

People are losing their jobs at a rapid rate as it's near to the 30-45 days for consultations for redundancies. It needs to be extended or more people will lose their jobs. Other counties are running it until next year and it makes me feel sick that we aren't protecting and saving jobs!

Why not create jobs that are helpful in COVID - like people to check quarantine is followed or cleaning schools/hospitals? Making our own PPE and scrubs? Checking high risk areas like meat factories. Rolling out more fast internet - put HS2 on hold and do this instead.

Yes - these things will need training, but I think many of these industries will be nationally important in the future.

But I think that the principle of giving a basic level of support is v important. I think for the moment a more planned economy would be better.

I suppose we could ask the Queen to pop to the pawnshop with the crown jewels, or to let Buckingham Palace to a couple of Russian oligarch to fill the kitty?

Honestly can someone tell op that the magic money tree does not exist, and never has

Of course it does. But only for things that will benefit those holding the purse strings, I'm afraid. We can 'afford' whatever we like, as a country. But not, alas, for the value of people's investment portfolios to drop too far.

Other counties are running it until next year

Do these other countries have the same low income tax?

We've just got to manage our way round and through this. Whats to say some other radical treatment or drug won't be found before a viable vaccine comes online?

Yes Boris comes across a a Buffon but there are some decent sensibel scientists behind that situation and things are altering and changing as more is known and comes to light.

OK masks are a PITA to wear in public but what if someone devlops a much ligher mask thats coated with a virus killer or reduces its effects?, a lot of people are working behind the scenes on things like that.

Most all countries in the world are in the same boat, sadley some worse then others. We're no exception.

I'm somewhat remided of what my dear old hard as nails harridain grannie woud have made of it all?. She was one who lost sons in the first world war then lost several relatives and friends in the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918

I expect she'd think we're a load of sissys!

Multivac, Serendipity, magic money tree is a helpful signal of power. We can't afford to pay ourselves more than we earn as a country = mantra by my friends who made millions in The City, until 2008 banking crisis. Now I agree the consequences of not supporting the financial sector would have been adverse but 'privatise the gains, socialise the losses' wasn't a welcome observation.

Because business expenses aren’t just wages, there’s rent and utilities and insurance etc etc. Some companies will have to fold regardless as they can’t afford any of the above any longer with no income. Furlough won’t help save those jobs.

@Marg33t

Furlough saves jobs and saves people's health. Why is the extension not announced today?

People are losing their jobs at a rapid rate as it's near to the 30-45 days for consultations for redundancies. It needs to be extended or more people will lose their jobs. Other counties are running it until next year and it makes me feel sick that we aren't protecting and saving jobs!

Having checked you out have decided to report.

Yabu it's insanely expensive and holding people into jobs that still won't exist once the pandemic recedes but some changes to working patterns become the norm.

I'd support enhanced funding for retraining etc, but not saddling our kids with future debts to maintain zombie companies.

I know people not back at work yet and taking the piss because they are getting paid to be off. So no, I don’t agree.

If we can't afford targeted sector specific furlough, we certainly can't afford the economic fall out of thousands possibly millions more unemployed. It isn't just about the cost of wages vs universal credit. Its about the many many things those wages buy to keep the wider economy going. If I was to lose my job I wouldn't be shopping at the farm shop I'd be going to farm foods. I wouldnt be paying for swimming lessons, football, cubs, cricket, karate etc. I wouldn't be buying petrol or going on holiday, or popping out for a coffee. The whole economy relies on plenty of people having disposable income.

Yabu it's insanely expensive and holding people into jobs that still won't exist once the pandemic recedes but some changes to working patterns become the norm.

Travel, tourism, airlines, theatres, live events etc. All of these cannot or can barely function, all will be up and running again once the pandemic recedes.

Furlough has to end, or be restructured so companies pay a lot more towards the wage an ease the tax bill.

Companies abusing the system, people on 6 bmonths paid holidays, then you see them complaining about holiday pay on here, so it doesn't get a lot of support.

People are loosing their jobs through no fault of their own

but this has always been the case...most people whom I know who lost their job pre covid either were made redundant or had to give up due to lack of support whilst caring for a disabled family member (I have a disabled child and frequent these circles).

YANBU but it is right that there should be some further changes. It can't stay like it currently is for the next 6 months.

I would propose that the government should continue to fund 50% of the employee's normal wage (up to the existing maximum) on the condition that (a) the company makes it up to at least 75% of normal from their own resources and (b) the company guarantees that the job will still exist once the Covid crisis is past, if the company still exists as an entity by that point.

Some jobs simply cannot restart yet, but the expertise and skills that will be lost to the company if the employee is made redundant and goes elsewhere may be impossible to replace. The company's long term survival therefore relies on being able to retain that employee until the business can restart trading.

At the same time, it doesn't make a great deal of sense for these highly skilled and experienced employees to sit at home doing nothing for a year if their normal thing they are brilliant at doing just can't happen for a year - but it doesn't make sense to go out job hunting when you can only offer your services for such a short time. Certainly temping jobs exist but these tend to be low-skill jobs at close to minimum wage - more highly skilled and specialist people find it a lot more difficult to fill a months-long gap.

But @vengeancer people can be on part-time Furlough here - this has been the case since July

but this has always been the case...

It has most certainly not always been the case that whole sectors have been compelled not to operate.
Do people not realise the huge knock-on effect this has? It's not just direct employment, it's all the supporting jobs, everything from sector-specific accounting to logistics.
Then it's all the money all these millions of people go on to spend within the larger economy.
The knock-on effect of just letting most businesses in a number of sectors go under is going to be huge.

Unpleasant as it is, the businesses that will recover have already recovered. The rest is going under, unless you extend furlough for 12-18 months...

may

I might have also a bit of a cynical view on things - families and carers of disabled children/family member have been consistently over years pushed out of the workplace because there is no wrap around/school holidays childcare available. a huge subsection of the society has been thrown under the bus (me and my family included). nobody gave/gives a shit. Not sure why certain workers in certain sectors are so much more important than us.

Travel, tourism, airlines, theatres, live events etc. All of these cannot or can barely function, all will be up and running again once the pandemic recedes.

If sectors cannot operate because current laws prevent them from doing so, then an arrangement can be made to support those workers. But we can't just afford to pay everyone on furlough 80% of their salary indefinitely. There are plenty of people furloughed who work in industries that are currently open, and that have been open since June (or which never closed, in some cases).

If those jobs are no longer needed six months down the line, then those people need to be made redundant and they can claim Universal Credit like everyone else has to. Loads of self-employed people or small businesses were forced to close in March and didn't have the luxury of furlough, even though they'd paid their taxes for years. They had to fall back on savings or UC.

There's a difference between sectors not being able to operate, and sectors choosing to keep people on furlough just to delay the inevitable redundancies in October.

I'd like to see some industry specific help for certain sectors - travel, entertainment, hospitality spring to mind (and I'm sure there are others). Not necessarily in the form of furlough though, but some sort of support (tax break?) to ease them through what is going to be a very difficult period. No doubt redundancies will still have to happen, though.

Luckily, we already have a system to support people who lose their jobs through no fault of the their own. It's Universal Credit. Why is this suddenly not good enough? It's the system the someone made redundant in 2019 would have been put on, what makes some made redundant in 2020-21 entitled to more?

Businesses need to diversify, to work smarter, to find new ways to operate. And people need to accept that they might need to retrain, find another job, move further away to find employment, make different life choices than they would have before C-19 hit.

I'd very much support creation of new jobs within the public sector and retraining help rather than paying people hefty sums to remain at home, nominally employed in jobs that are no longer needed, in businesses that are no longer viable.

I don't agree that those businesses who will recover have done, the live events of industry has just been told they are banned from working for probably the next six months, what do they do?
This is a huge and viable industry which contributes massively to the economy and I'm sure people will want to return to events, conferences, shows, exhibitions etc, but the companies who stage these will collapse very shortly without further help, leaving many hundreds of thousands of staff out of work and reliant on benefits.

Am I being naive in hoping that the massive costs that are having to be borne by government (due to the current situation) might still result in the cancellation of HS2, or has that ship really sailed? I know a lot has been spent already, but it is really going to be a white elephant, especially as wfh will become standard so commuting will lessen. I live in hope.

I’m actually surprised that they haven’t extended it for certain sectors

I don’t see how we can end it in October but likewise I don’t see how we can afford to extend it either

@HerLadySheep the live events and theatre industry would need at least 1 year of furlough. 6 months won’t help unfortunately

Its certainly not true that industries that will recover already have done. The travel industry is a prime example of why sector specific support is needed. The model in the industry means that not only did the industry close, they've also refunded the vast majority of profits they made from around the end of August last year. To make things even more difficult they were unable to simply furlough staff as they had to process refunds, rebook guests and repatriate customers. They are now open but still cancelling holidays and refunding money as the advice changes so frequently. Bookings for 2021 are looking OK and companies will survive if they make it until then, but the businesses don't earn money on those bookings until customers pay their balances a few months before travelling. Its just nonsense to say that this means they aren't a viable business - not many companies could survive what is looking to be essentially 18 months without revenue.