To be confused about carb heavy diet?

[GreenestValley]

Just reading a thread on here about weight loss and diet. Many posters commenting that the Op in that thread has a very carb heavy diet.

I feel quite confused about it as I always thought carbs were an important part of a balanced diet and a source of energy. Obviously not too much white bread, white pasta etc, but from a personal perspective I have to have a fairly carb based diet or else I get hungry and end up snacking. And I’ve always had a normal weight.
I was also under the impression that the “low carb” diets of the early 2000s eg Atkins etc that were very popular, were kind of debunked now.
Am I missing something? Do carbs affect some people differently to others? Would welcome a bit of de mystifying here if anyone has expertise just for my own understanding!

[quote Palavah]@justanotherneighinparadise that's what I mean - if were weren't evolved to eat meat or fish every day, perhaps a feast once a week?, then 80%, 70% of our weekly meals would involve no animal protein.?[/quote]
We don't really follow the eating pattern of those days though. For most of the lifetime of our species we may have feasted in meat when we caught it, fruit in season, nuts in season, etc. But we would also have periods of being hungry and not eating anything in between. It's the whole reason we get fat when we have periods of feasting - so we can store meals for later.

I reckon it is normal for weight to fluctuate - our ancestors didn't stay the same weight all year. But it would likely have fluctuated from a much lower base. We'd have stuffed ourselves with fruit in the autumn and got a bit fatter, and during the winter when food was scarce we would have had hungrier times and lost it.

Nowadays it feels like we're not allowed to be hungry and we do the feasting but not the fasting.

I have type 1 diabetes. It is not diet or lifestyle related, it is an autoimmune disease. I eat a low carb diet. I find it hard and yes I sometimes miss bread etc, but it gives me superb control of my blood sugars and levels that are almost non diabetic. I have also lost weight and feel better than I have in years (I only became diabetic a year ago).
I will take a lack of bread and potatoes over a future of eye, kidney and heart problems.

I think the problem is that there's an assumption that if you are obese you must also be diabetic or pre-diabetic, and also that all carbs spike blood sugar. I am am obese and have lost 3 stone this year with another 4 at least to lose. I went scorched earth on added sugar at the beginning of the year, meaning that apart from one pudding a week I don't eat chocolate, biscuits, cake or sweets. I prefer wholemeal and wholegrain but I eat at least portion of carbs at every meal except occasionally in the evening. I don't eat low fat foods (the nice thing about not trying to shoehorn in a pudding is that I can eat very filling and satisfying food that is also good for me whilst counting calories). Later on I started calorie counting and have found it much easier without the distraction and false signals of excess sugar. So yes, excess sugar is a problem but "excess" depends on the person and their metabolism, really. I don't feel the need to go to war on grains and starches because I am able to eat them and I enjoy them.

I am not diabetic or pre-diabetic despite having had gestational diabetes in pregnancy (meaning that I have to have a test every year - bloods bang on normal ever since baby born). Even when I did have GD I found that starches didn't spike my blood sugar whereas all sugary food and some veg (but not fruit) really did. I appreciate that GD isn't really the same as T2 or T1. What I will say is that I was convinced that it had all caught up to me and I was going to end up with T2, and despite that continued to eat a very sugary diet for 2+ years during which time my blood sugar has been 100% stable and normal.

For me the big game changer has been cutting out the vast majority of food with added sugar, and keeping an eye on my macros. About 50% of my daily intake is carbs.

So the NHS model does work for at least some of us but obviously for those it doesn't suit low carb can be great.

People have always cooked and eaten grains. The whole world eats carbs as their staple diet.

And it’s normal to sometimes feel hungry. There’s no need to feel full all the time.

There are threads on here all the time about why people are overweight, and it’s a range of psychological issues and poverty.

[quote Palavah]@justanotherneighinparadise that's what I mean - if were weren't evolved to eat meat or fish every day, perhaps a feast once a week?, then 80%, 70% of our weekly meals would involve no animal protein.?[/quote]
I can’t give you precise answers @Palavah. I know the Paleo diet tries to mimic an ancestral diet. They sure as well weren’t eating 70% of their diet from carbohydrate if that’s you assertion.

There was an interesting podcast I listened to a couple of weeks ago with an academic who was studying various groups of people who’s eating hadn’t changed over time. One community were located in Alaska and still solely ate meat and fat. No carbs, completely healthy. I’ll see if I can find any links.

I think it was the Inuets. I have a link
www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-inuit-paradox

I still eat some carbs as I find my mental health gets affected if I don't. BMI is 21.5.

HOWEVER. I mostly cut out sugar about three months ago, also permanently gave up breakfast, and I have lost THREE INCHES off my waist. Taking it from 32 to 29. It is crazy, so many clothes/jeans etc fit so much better now.

I really think that if we didn't worry about most carbs for now but just all cut out as much sugar as possible, there would be huge results at a societal level.

It’s the simple processed carbs that are the problem. Carrots, parsnips and sweet potatoes are all absolutely fine carbs to eat. The trouble is, most people eat A LOT of simple carbs that convert to sugar and spike insulin levels. This directly leads to stored fat.
I’m talking bread, pasta, rice being the 3 main culprits that have pretty much NO nutritional value. They do nothing for your body, other than give it empty calories.
The Atkins diet I believe told you to cut carbs even in an apple or banana etc which is wrong IMO
Tried me, if you cut out processed carbs and Foods with processed sugar for a month Weight falls off, skin is improved vastly and you feel so much better! I challenge anyone who is trying to lose weight to look up primal or paleo eating. It absolutely transform you in such a short time

It genuinely makes me nervous how many non diabetic people talk about insulin so much...

It genuinely makes me nervous how many non diabetic people talk about insulin so much...

@SchrodingersImmigrant
Why on earth should it? Don't you think the general population should learn about their own biology?

It’s Inuit.

The first Palaeolithic people didn’t eat the same diet as the Inuit. The first humans lived in Africa not Alaska. The Inuits have adapted to their diet over time, just as Northern Europeans have adapted to a diet based on grains and dairy.

BIWI - my impression was that some people went a bit mad on Atkins when it first became big and just ate loads of red meat and fat and not much else. Whether they were following it properly or not it seemed to give them permission to do that, hence why it got a bad rep. But yes some of the thinking behind it was good.

These days I think a more sensible low carb diet is advocated.
Good lean meats, healthy fats, some carbs preferably not processed. A better balance.

They are trying to change the government endorsed healthy plate image in which the balance is wrong.

These days I think a more sensible low carb diet is advocated.

the diet recommendations peddled by keto advocates are absolutely nuts unsustainable and unhealthy.

I'm trying to aim for lowish carb. My 76 year-old dad, who was only a bit overweight and didn't eat a bad diet, went low carb a few years ago. Still has his morning bowl of homemade unsweetened muesli, but gave up bread, pasta, rice, potatoes etc. He lost quite a bit of weight, reversed his pre-diabetes, came off statins and blood pressure meds and got rid of his sleep apnoea, for which he'd had to use a machine to sleep. He now has the odd roast potato, or a tiny bit of cake on a special occasion.

People discussing their own health and telling positive anecdotes is indeed terrifying. Blindly trusting professionals until they do a complete 180 is the way forward. Masks on everyone, off to the gulag until youre re-educated.

the diet recommendations peddled by keto advocates are absolutely nuts unsustainable and unhealthy.

I think there's a lot of misinformation around what keto is. The recommended food is generally protein from meat/eggs, carbs from mostly green veg and fat from butter, cream, cheese or various oils.

Just because you have a memory of Atkin's dieters that would boast that they live on bacon and eggs and nothing else, doesn't mean that is what keto/low carb actually is.

For example, last night I ate an omelette with ham, cheese and onion in, plus coleslaw on the side. How is that unhealthy? Would it suddenly become healthier if I added a baked potato or rice?

It depends what else you eat obviously.

If it was homemade coleslaw in a large quantity it might not be too bad.

It’s also hard to ban stuff altogether. People fall off the wagon.

For instance if you really love cereal and find it hard to switch your routine out of it. It’s not the worst thing in the world. Instead of a massive bowl of cereal with skimmed milk. How about a smaller bowl with semi skimmed or full fat. That will be more filling and better balanced. Or try a small bowl of porridge as it is better than processed cereal.

I you can’t live without toast. Don’t have two slices with spread and jam. Have one slice and have it with proper butter. Maybe have some protein with it.

Too sensible @Carycy sorry. It’s either full pendulum swing to the left or full pendulum swing to the right. Nothing else can exist here.

There’s no actual need to make those changes Carycy.

People end up with eating disorders or just give up entirely following all these contradictory bits of advice.

Didn't Atkins diet mean living off of steak & neat spirits? Was called the drinking man's diet.

Yes, you're right. Complex carbs are good for you and important as we need a lot of fibre (from carbs and veg/fruit) each day to prevent things like bowel cancer.

1500 calories of complex carbs, veg, fruit, dairy and healthy protein (chicken, fish, nuts and one portion of red meat a fortnight/month OR veggie/vegan proteins) is pretty perfect for weight loss.

You can make your starch more resistant by freezing it. i didn't know that, cool! You can make rice more resistant by cooking and cooling as opposed to eating it straight away, too.

It genuinely makes me nervous how many non diabetic people talk about insulin so much why on earth are you nervous about people understanding how their bodies work?

I imagine there would be political fallout if the NHS revised its guidance and concluded that people need to eat a higher cost diet in order to be healthy.

I think you're right. A recently (thanks to pregnancy) diabetic friend of mine was saying how much more expensive it is to eat properly as a diabetic. Nuts, cheese, meat, avocados are all much more expensive than potatoes and pasta.

that's what I mean - if were weren't evolved to eat meat or fish every day, perhaps a feast once a week?, then 80%, 70% of our weekly meals would involve no animal protein.?

I think the whole what we evolved to eat thing is a fallacy anyway. We evolved to die by our 30s. Maybe diets to avoid disease that only takes hold after 40+ years weren't of any great benefit

I’m talking bread, pasta, rice being the 3 main culprits that have pretty much NO nutritional value. They do nothing for your body, other than give it empty calories.

This type of hyperbole isn't helpful.

Wholegrain bread for example has carbohydrate (which whilst I advocate low card we do need some of and is still a nutrient), vitamin E, selenium, iron, magnesium, zinc, B vitamins and Fibre.

Even a quick Google for white bread shows it contains calcium, potassium magnesium, phosphorus and zinc, all of which are nutrients that our bodies need.

I'm not saying bread is the best choice and that there aren't problems with eating significant amounts of it but the hyperbole that normal foods that people have eaten for centuries have NO nutritional value is just not true.

I don’t understand what you mean by your post stripes galore.

I am just saying some of the advice I give to patients if they ask for it. I deal with arteriopaths. Not so much people with eating disorders though.

I find this website very useful - it's a diet from Diabetes UK, it's a very heathy, full of fruit and veg diet, with some carbs but not loads. I have tried very low carbs but ended up with pretty bad headaches and being extremely snappy and low mood, and in my job I can't deal with that (I work in a school). So I have found that the Diabetes UK's diet is working very well for me to keep my weight healthy and keeps feeling full and happy.

I am saying that people giving restrictive diet rules that normal people don’t need to follow leads to eating disorders and people giving up on nutritional advice altogether.