To be confused about carb heavy diet?

[GreenestValley]

Just reading a thread on here about weight loss and diet. Many posters commenting that the Op in that thread has a very carb heavy diet.

I feel quite confused about it as I always thought carbs were an important part of a balanced diet and a source of energy. Obviously not too much white bread, white pasta etc, but from a personal perspective I have to have a fairly carb based diet or else I get hungry and end up snacking. And I’ve always had a normal weight.
I was also under the impression that the “low carb” diets of the early 2000s eg Atkins etc that were very popular, were kind of debunked now.
Am I missing something? Do carbs affect some people differently to others? Would welcome a bit of de mystifying here if anyone has expertise just for my own understanding!

CrunchyNutNC You should read the NHS page as it covers your points.

Look up Virta Heath. They’re actively reversing type 2 diabetes with low carb and ketogenic diets. The NHS isn’t the defining power on nutrition.

Simply I would be dead if ate the recommended amount of carbs.

@MillyMollyFarmer

From the NHS link:

The government's healthy eating advice, illustrated by the Eatwell Guide, recommends that just over a third of your diet should be made up of starchy foods, such as potatoes, bread, rice and pasta, and over another third should be fruit and vegetables. This means that over half of your daily calorie intake should come from starchy foods, fruit and vegetables.

Yes but it is old advice and is changing.

We are evolved to eat a varied diet, plant and animal sources. We evolved to have feasting periods and fasting periods. We did not evolve to exist on grains (which are a relatively modern invention), let alone highly processed ones, let alone multiple meals every single day. Bread and pasta contain highly processed grains.

@MillyMollyFarmer

CrunchyNutNC You should read the NHS page as it covers your points.

I did read it, that's why I commented that they were using carbs as a proxy for fibre.

@MillyMollyFarmer , yes, low calorie vegetables do contain carbohydrates but overall even if you eat a plateful of them with some fat and protein most of your calories would be from fat and protein. I do eat a small a small amount of starches. You can on a lot of low (not no) carb diets. Though not as much as 50 percent of my calories. This diet sustains my exercise too. I MAF train with my running which is pretty good for fat adaptation. My body fat percentage has gone down from being over 40 percent to under 30 on this regime. My lean body mass percentage has increased. I am fitter, can happily run 10k everyday and my back hurts less. I have gone from a size 16 to size 10.

We did not evolve to exist on grains (which are a relatively modern invention), let alone highly processed ones, let alone multiple meals every single day. Bread and pasta contain highly processed grains

Gosh, no of course we shouldn’t exist on grains! Does the NHS say that?! Did anyone say on this thread even, to eat highly processed carbs? Nobody has said that inc the NHS.

Congratulations very on improving your health. I miss running desperately, injury and hormones have interrupted me! I don’t think low carb is necessary for any of your improvements though, just my opinion. I wouldn’t recommend anyone follow my diet or your diet, because it’s not what we should do. But I think you’re more sharing what you do and aren’t extreme about it, by the sounds of it. Some posters are and are advising, which is different.

My weight loss diet - the one that actually works for me - is absolutely ridiculous (1600 cals, toast with lashings of butter, granary bread sandwich, multipack crisps, multipack chocolate bar, apple, 2 oatcakes, handful of nuts, small dinner portion) but when I try to make it 'healthier' I can't stick to it, don't enjoy it and stop losing.

As the NHS link above states, you do need a variety of foods and that should include starches as well.

Huge difference between a highly varied diet with some starchy soluble fibre sources, and a diet which comprises carbs as the majority component.

Low carb is not no carb. It will include small quantities of starchy foods, soluble fibre, etc.

@MillyMollyFarmer

We did not evolve to exist on grains (which are a relatively modern invention), let alone highly processed ones, let alone multiple meals every single day. Bread and pasta contain highly processed grains

Gosh, no of course we shouldn’t exist on grains! Does the NHS say that?! Did anyone say on this thread even, to eat highly processed carbs? Nobody has said that inc the NHS.

What is pasta?

I eat brown rice, wholewheat pasta, potatoes, fruits and veggies. Loads of fibre along with the carbs.

Most of the food i eat is not processed, I cut out carbs like bread, cake, biscuits, white rice and pasta etc. And I don't really miss them. When I do, I'll have the occasional treat, but I like the way I feel on my current eating plan.

The types of carbs you eat are definitely important.

My sister has followed a low carb, vegetarian diet and also lost weight, but finds it difficult to stick to long term, whereas I don't feel like I follow a diet, I've just made changes that I'm gonna follow for the foreseeable future.

Carbs is a tricky one. I don't think anyone is going to become more unhealthy by cutting some pasta/bread and replacing it with vegetables seeing as most veg have carbs in anyway!
I know for me I'm using veg/salad for volume as on 1200 calories, cereal doesn't go very far so I would rather have fruit and yoghurt. Same for pasta, I would rather have the meat with veg or a salad and have a bigger portion
Also I don't have control around bread, it's too easy to grab some while waiting for tea etc

Sadly the NHS advice is not great. It’s the standard westernised food pyramid that plunged much of those countries following the guidelines into obesity.

I do wonder though whether we can actually afford for these populations to be eating real food. I’m feeling very conspiratorial lately and I think I’m order to feed all the people they have to be eating a lot of grains and beige food as there’s not enough meat and eggs and fish to go around. There’s a big push at the moment for everyone to go vegan and the food industries are prepping for pea protein to take the place of meat. There’s massive money behind these industries and they’re still not anything like our ancestors would be eating.

I’m happy if anyone gets great results on any way of eating as long as physically and mentally you’re well that’s fabulous! For those who feel ill and crap though they might find salvation elsewhere away from the trite comments of ‘eat less, move more’ and ‘everything in moderation’. Few people can eat carbs in moderation. They’re very design is to keep the body hungry. So for those who might be reading this and wondering what to do. Please look up research from Jason Fung, Tim Noakes, Gary Fedke, Ivor Cummins, Eric Westman, Ben Bikman, Paul Mason, Ted Naiman and many many more doctors who are backing up their anecdotal data with science backed data.

Depends on the pasta crunchy. Whole grain foods exist!

I would go as far as to say that if everyone ate consistently low carb, there would be no T2 diabetes.

We also didn't evolve to eat meat every day, did we?

@DianaT1969

I would go as far as to say that if everyone ate consistently low carb, there would be no T2 diabetes.

I think we have an awful lot of people with prediabetes who are completely in denial. They think their body is coping very well with their standard western diet and have no clue what’s waiting for them in 5-10 years. Even more reason to get the message out that T2 can go into remission super quickly with adherence to a ketogenic diet alongside intermittent fasting. As soon as three weeks!

Michael Moseley’s wife is a GP and he said that she now measures her patient’s waist circumference regularly. This very simple measurement tells her which people will most likely become diabetic if nothing changes. Your waist circumference should be less than half your height. That’s something you could check right now to see if you’re comfortably below that figure or currently over it.

@Palavah

We also didn't evolve to eat meat every day, did we?

We were hunter gatherers. So we would have had times of feasting and fasting. We would have been eating meat and fish and foraged items primarily but we were unlikely to have eaten meat everyday unless some communities were lucky enough to have rich grazing around and fabulous hunting skills.

@MillyMollyFarmer - the same NHS dieticians who expoused the virtues of low fat, low cal diets until very recently? The ones who saw millions become T2 diabetic but didn't change their general advice? The NHS gave insulin shots instead. T2 diabetics have too much insulin. So the NHS injected them with more. Now many T2 diabetics are getting their health back with keto or low carb or intermittent fasting, or a combination of all 3. The NHS will catch up with the science in about 5 years.

@GreenestValley are you referring to the post earlier today where the OP is a PCOS sufferer? Not everyone's bodies can cope with many carbs and for PCOS suffers they should very much be eaten sparingly. Protein really is what keeps you full, it takes the longest to digest but eating lots of processed protein is not good for you so a balance of all protein is best.

The NHS will catch up with the science in about 5 years

What are your qualifications Diana? Do you have any?

For those who question the NHS, From the British Dietetic Association:

Weight loss is still the cornerstone of management of type 2 diabetes. There is insufficient evidence to indicate that low carbohydrate diets are a superior or better approach than other strategies for weight loss and subsequent weight maintenance in the long term

More research is needed to ascertain the long-term health impacts of a low-carbohydrate diets, including on heart health.

www.bda.uk.com/resource/low-carbohydrate-diets-for-the-management-of-type-2-diabetes-in-adults.html

I have recently started a low carb diet. I have been an on off dieter all my life but the one diet I have never done before is low carb because the thought of it terrified me. If I'm honest I think it's because I knew how much I relied on carbs as fuel and comfort. Cutting them out has been really eye opening. The food I am able to eat is not the food I want to over indulge in and my appetite has completely dropped. I have lost 10 lbs in four weeks and feel I have more energy than I have in years. I hope I can keep it up and lose the four-six stone I need to to be a healthy person. I am having some dark chocolate each evening and nut butter some stevia sweetener in coffee. Haven't managed to switch away from cows milk yet though but it's all making a positive impact for me at the moment.

[quote MillyMollyFarmer]For those who question the NHS, From the British Dietetic Association:

Weight loss is still the cornerstone of management of type 2 diabetes. There is insufficient evidence to indicate that low carbohydrate diets are a superior or better approach than other strategies for weight loss and subsequent weight maintenance in the long term

More research is needed to ascertain the long-term health impacts of a low-carbohydrate diets, including on heart health.

www.bda.uk.com/resource/low-carbohydrate-diets-for-the-management-of-type-2-diabetes-in-adults.html[/quote]
I actually have something that contradicts that text. Let me see if I can find a link...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7342268/

It’s been cited by the low carb skeptics that any diet that successfully lowers the weight of a diabetic patient will have the capacity to reverse T2 diabetes. This case study published in The British Medical Journal shows that the patient successfully reversed her T2 diabetes using a ketogenic diet WITHOUT weight loss.

I'm all for questioning the NHS. If their advice is good, why are we now seeing more and more T2 diabetes in society?

I'm T2 diabetic myself. As well as lurking here, I lurk on the diabetic forums. On them, there are effectively two camps. There's those following the NHS advice, eating 'in moderation', and having treats. They're the ones with high HbA1c, injecting increasing amounts of insulin and not losing weight. And there are those who are sceptical about the advice given, are following low carb diets. They're the ones with now normal HbA1c and no longer on medication. Now I'm sure this can be argued as oversimplistic etc., but it's a fairly stark divide.

There may be longer term problems with low carb, but I don't see that these can be much worse than going blind and losing limbs. And given that my cholesterol ratios have also improved dramatically, I'm feeling positive about my cardiac health too.

Low carb isn't for everyone, but the NHS diet advice for diabetes is poor, and increasingly recognised as such. I also expect it to change in the next five years or so - it just takes a long time to turn round the supertanker.

BTW, I have no relevant qualifications whatsoever.