To be confused about carb heavy diet?

[GreenestValley]

Just reading a thread on here about weight loss and diet. Many posters commenting that the Op in that thread has a very carb heavy diet.

I feel quite confused about it as I always thought carbs were an important part of a balanced diet and a source of energy. Obviously not too much white bread, white pasta etc, but from a personal perspective I have to have a fairly carb based diet or else I get hungry and end up snacking. And I’ve always had a normal weight.
I was also under the impression that the “low carb” diets of the early 2000s eg Atkins etc that were very popular, were kind of debunked now.
Am I missing something? Do carbs affect some people differently to others? Would welcome a bit of de mystifying here if anyone has expertise just for my own understanding!

@CorianderLord

It shows that a lot of women on here grew up when carbs = evil.

I doubt that’s true. Until about ten years ago it was fat that was regarded as evil and that myth clings on. You only have to read this thread to see how distrusted low carb is when it’s actually a perfectly healthy and sustainable way of eating.

Correlation does not equal causation. What you ‘think’ is not what nutritionists or the NHS base their official advice on.

I wasn't disputing your first sentence, I was disputing the second.

Much of our modern Western dietary advice comes from correlational studies.

Someone should have explained the first sentence to Ancel Keyes....

@VinylDetective I’ve found this thread really heartening actually as I think the message is starting to get through. We can’t wait for the NHS to change their message, that could take up to a decade. We have the ability to make changes ourselves. I’ve already converted my partner and my mother to a low carb diet. Anyone else that asks I tend to point them towards MM as I think he breaks it all down quite nicely without getting over scientific. He’s very relatable although I know a lot of Mumsnetters aren’t fans.

@Queenblueberries - you experienced headaches when you are low carb and gave up. This is exactly where the NHS needs to educate people. People get headaches due to withdrawal from sugar, caffeine or from low electrolytes. A new thing happens in the body with ketone production, but the side effects are short and temporary. Some people need magnesium and the deficiency shows more when starting a new eating programme. Everyone is individual. People experience different 'side-effects'. Knowing what to expect is important.
But they understandably give up because it's easier to eat carbs again than to do what it takes to overcome a headache/constipation/sleeplessness. Many people don't feel any different. Although intermittent fasting usually created an abundance of energy.

Giving up caffeine gave me debilitating headaches for three days, so glad I did it though. Giving up alcohol also causes the body to experience a withdrawal if it’s been infested to excess. Same with sugar.

*ingested

I read this article recently about how most people aren't getting enough fibre in their diets - apparently adults should be aiming for 25 - 30g per day!

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-46827426

Is it possible to achieve this on a low carb diet? I must say I'm quite swayed by low carb but this issue confuses me!

@unoeufisunoeuf1

I read this article recently about how most people aren't getting enough fibre in their diets - apparently adults should be aiming for 25 - 30g per day!

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-46827426

Is it possible to achieve this on a low carb diet? I must say I'm quite swayed by low carb but this issue confuses me!

Yes because most of the fibre comes from veg which is the carb in a low carb diet (it isn't 'no' carb).

So if your carbs are coming from vegetables then you get lots of fibre.

Tonight I'm having a low carb dinner - cheesy cauliflower mash (no potato), mushrooms and broccoli along with some meat. Lots of fibre, vitamins and minerals.

And I struggle to see how adding pasta or bread would suddenly make it healthier.

Thanks. Your dinner sounds great and I agree, it doesn't sound like pasta/bread would be needed from a satiety or deliciousness point of view.

I'm still unsure if you could reach 30g fibre in a day without whole grains though - as cauli (for example) contains 2g per 100g it's a lot of veg to munch through.

And I realise one is allowed whole grains on a low-carb diet but not in the quantity needed for the fibre goal, which sounds dauntingly high!

The Atkins diet was popular about twenty years ago, so many fad dieters did grow up with this.

It is largely fibre and micronutrients often from veg that are low in many Western diets.

And sorry, that sounded a bit goady. I don’t mean that anyone doing low carb is fad dieting. I know some people find it suits them and is a long term choice.

I reckon about 5% max of people who said they were doing Atkins were doing it properly! It's a carefully worked out plan, with different stages, moving from extremely low carb (20g carbs per day) to working out the amount of carbs you, as an individual, can eat per day without gaining weight.

It's very complicated to follow properly.

And the media didn't help - lots of stories about people being ill, focusing on the carb withdrawal, claiming that all people ate was meat and butter, etc, etc. As well as claiming that Atkins himself died from a heart attack, therefore the diet must be harmful.

@unoeufisunoeuf1

If you focus on getting your carbs from veg and salad when low carbing, you should get enough fibre. Depending on how low carb you want/need to be, you can also include pulses too, which will also help.

Like many diets I am sure there were people who approached it sensibly and really thought through the nutrients.

Then there were people who jump from one diet to another who will have not followed it in any kind of sensible way.

ONly 1 kg of Broccoli, Unoeufis, piece of piss.

My husband is a recently diagnosed T2 diabetic so we have been low carb for about 3 months aiming at 50g a day from fruit, veg and small amounts of wholegrains. He has got his diabetes into remission, reduced his triglycerides and cholesterol and lost 14kg, without meds. There is a totally stark divide on diabetic forums between those who follow the NHS advice that diabetes is a chronic progressive disease, take ever increasing amounts of medication and eat everything in moderation, no bad foods yadda yadda, with plenty of 'treats' even as they moan constantly about side effects, neuropathy, retinopathy, heart disease..... and those who make big changes (low carb plus weight loss) to reverse the condition. Cue howls of protest from group 1 "you can't reverse diabetes, you are diabetic for life". Obviously that's a more extreme situation than someone who is 'only' overweight or obese (but what's the betting they have no idea if they are pre-diabetic?). Basically NHS healthy eating advice, and advice for dietary treatment of T2D is a load of cobblers with no evidence base whatsoever.

@unoeufisunoeuf1

And I realise one is allowed whole grains on a low-carb diet but not in the quantity needed for the fibre goal, which sounds dauntingly high!

I eat nuts some days, pancakes another, pulses another, salad almost every day days, potato with skin some days, bit of brown toast another day, bit of very dark chocolate, etc though I've never toted it up in terms of fibre. For me low carb means almost no sugar or 'white' carbs and I feel healthier.

The NHS seem to be using carbs as a proxy for fibre. If they said the majority of the diet should be fibre, of which vegetables, nuts, pulses and wholegrain cereals are good sources i think that would be fair enough. But they dictate the majority being carbs, and for a great many people that means white bread, peeled potatoes, pasta, white rice etc. We might not be getting enough fibre as a nation, but processed carbs doesn't fix that, or at least if it does it causes a different problem.

@Miloarmadillo2

My husband is a recently diagnosed T2 diabetic so we have been low carb for about 3 months aiming at 50g a day from fruit, veg and small amounts of wholegrains. He has got his diabetes into remission, reduced his triglycerides and cholesterol and lost 14kg, without meds. There is a totally stark divide on diabetic forums between those who follow the NHS advice that diabetes is a chronic progressive disease, take ever increasing amounts of medication and eat everything in moderation, no bad foods yadda yadda, with plenty of 'treats' even as they moan constantly about side effects, neuropathy, retinopathy, heart disease..... and those who make big changes (low carb plus weight loss) to reverse the condition. Cue howls of protest from group 1 "you can't reverse diabetes, you are diabetic for life". Obviously that's a more extreme situation than someone who is 'only' overweight or obese (but what's the betting they have no idea if they are pre-diabetic?). Basically NHS healthy eating advice, and advice for dietary treatment of T2D is a load of cobblers with no evidence base whatsoever.

Another bit of anecdotal data for the pile 👌

@ragged

ONly 1 kg of Broccoli, Unoeufis, piece of piss.

Erm I've described one meal. I don't just live on broccoli

fibre per 100grams of veg

1 mushrooms, courgette
1.3 tomatoes
1.6 celery
2 spinach
2.5 cabbage, broccoli
4.1 kale ...
17 chickpeas +61 grams of carbs

100 grams of walnuts is 7 g, but also 700 kcal. So quite filling

Yeah, it looks challenging to me, too! 1 kg of veg a day really is the target.

Thanks @crunchynutNC and @biwi - definitely sounds more achievable with pulses and nuts.

I'm all for low carb diets until it comes to banning carrots, parsnips, beetroot let alone potatoes and any fruit except for berries (which only grow in about 3 months of the year in the UK).

It's a very indulgent diet in terms of the environment, demanding the eating of a lot of animal protein, avocadoes and unseasonal salad veg.

I think it will have it's day.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

I'm all for low carb diets until it comes to banning carrots, parsnips, beetroot let alone potatoes and any fruit except for berries (which only grow in about 3 months of the year in the UK).

It's a very indulgent diet in terms of the environment, demanding the eating of a lot of animal protein, avocadoes and unseasonal salad veg.

I think it will have it's day.

Those vegetables are not banned (although potatoes are to be reserved for only very special occasions!). And nobody says you have to eat avocados or unseasonal salad veg.