To have had enough of lying teen DD

[Acidiceyes]

I’ve named changed for this one because I’ve potentially outed myself with previous posts. Before I start I just want to make it clear that I absolutely love my DD but I just feel helpless. Please be kind, I just need your advice.

My DD is 14 and we’ve had some real attention seeking issues for the past year/year and half. It started with little things like being on social media when we asked her not too, falling out with friends etc we then found out she had been cutting herself, just the classic small cuts on the forarms. At this point we also became aware she had a boyfriend and had been sending inappropriate texts. Immediately took the phone away and spoke with the school, and worked with them. We had meetings with CAHMS and me and her dad (we’ve split) we’re working together on trying to get some help. We started to make progress even though CAHMS took a while to actually get us in for assessments and then about a month before they contacted us again. Within this time period she then started telling us she was hearing voices, she called an ambulance and was taken to a&e. As soon as I arrived there I knew she was lying. Pretending to have conversations and staring vacantly into space and then seemingly be fine and having a laugh, even the doctors said she wasn’t psychotic and it’s just normal to hear things sometimes. I was raging because I just felt like it was all done for attention at to deflect from the texting situation. I know this sounds harsh but honestly if you had seen her you would have known she was lying. We go the CAHMS route again and they see us for an emergency appointment. At one point in the 1hour meeting they thought she was autistic but high functioning, they let this slip to my DD and she clinged onto it. She said things like “oh I like to have labels”. As an interim to CAHMS my DD was seeing an in school councillor and seemed to actually come out of it and was in a better place. We eased off a bit and let her see her friends and have a phone so sh le could keep in contact with us with regular vetting from us. She then decided she didn’t want to carry on with CAHMS and told them that, we thought that we had handled the situation and the help she was getting in school was okay. Everything was going swimmingly. Fast forward maybe a couple of months and I was alerted by the school that my DD had told them one of her friends had told her she had been sexual assaulted and they needed to call the police. Obviously I supported that but wished DD had spoken to me so I could have discussed it with the friends parents. Anyway the friend said it wasn’t true, the lad who was being accused said it wasn’t true. So, it was dropped by police. My DD stopped seeing this friend and I was glad because I thought the friend had lied to my DD and that my DD had done the right thing. Then life froze and we went into lockdown, school was being done online and my DD seemed to blossom, she was happy and engaging with us, her school work has always been amazing and she’s the smartest girl I know. I’m not just being biased but she’s one of those people that don’t need to try it’s natural talent. The only thing is she started to get very political, very vocal about her support of BLM and LGBTQ communities which is fine and I do agree with what she thinks but she forced it down you and it’s I feel a very bigoted way to conduct yourself on whatever side you are, in this time she started to say she was a lesbian, again absolutely no issue with this but it just didn’t seem true. Like she wanted to be part of this minority of people. We then return back to school in September. Alarm bells start ringing about 1 week in, she had cut her leg and self harmed again. We talked and she said it was the stress of starting school. We talked and I spoke with school, about a week ago school tells me that apparently DD was overheard by another pupil talking about drugs and like she did them. Now I know this isn’t true, we are talking like ketamine and I’m in constantContact with her when she’s out and I pick her up. She’s never been high. So again we talk and I think it’s put to bed. Then we come to last night, she posted something polictical but aggressive on social media, I asked her to take it down and she gave me attitude so I told her to take it down and bring me her phone. Looked through the phone (I know I must sound mental but honestly I just see this cycle happening over and over). I couldn’t see anything of concern but just before I was going to bed she came and said she needed to tell me something....the lad that apparently sexually assaulted her friend, she’s been hanging out with them again and he assaulted her in July. I have no idea what to think, I have no idea what to do. I just don’t know what to believe anymore. It’s clear she has some mental health problems but if this is true then I need to sort it out but if it’s not then I could be ruining lives. I don’t even know if anyone will reply to this but I just feel so lost and I’m drowning, I feel like it’s my fault. Have I caused this? It might be worth mentioning that her dad does suffer from MH issues as well. What do I do?

It sounds like you're at the end of your tether and possibly feel resentful which is understandable but do you think that it could be coming across towards her? I think the stricter you get in this situation the more you're both going to become angrier and it does sound like she's calling out for help. Might be worthwhile just getting on a level with her and letting her know you're supportive and that she has someone who's got her back. As a 14 year old I was off the rails and the more my parents confiscated things and huffed and puffed the more I would go out of my way to be as angry and rebellious as possible

I'd be looking at this from the angle that she may be being an attention seeking drama queen, but that's for a reason. Just because the signs are annoying doesn't mean they're not signs of something - she is crying out for attention for some reason, I'd be trying to get to the bottom of that.

Also trying to seperate out relatively normal teen stuff (making stuff up to brag to friends, becoming politically active, being a stroppy cow generally) with the more concerning (the cutting, the sexual assault claims etc). I don't know the process for maintaining CAMHS support but definitely speak to them again and maybe speak to a pastoral care person or her form tutor/head of year at school and try and get the full picture, check there's nothing untoward going on at school or any issues they've noticed you don't know about?

I was similar (although not to this level) as a teen, and it was a result of various undiagnised MH issues and a chaotic home life and a need for attention. Once I finally got support for my MH it improved dramatically and I'm now a very normal boring adult.

I totally get that, I had her as a teenager and it was very difficult. I’ve really built everything up from nowhere and I feel like I’ve tried to give her the best, I’m not the strictest of parents and I feel like I’m on her level Because we aren’t that different in age. I just seem to get it thrown back on my face every time. More than anything I just want her to succeed and not be like I was. I do feel resentment sometime and that makes me feel awful but it’s so hard to like her sometimes. I love her with my whole heart but I just can’t bare the lying and attention seeking. I just want her to find herself and be happy.

I don’t want to be nasty, but your last post is all about you, not your DD. So I’m wondering a bit about the dynamics between the two of you.

I know it’s a cry for attention so completely difficult if it is true and if it isn’t. I feel like I’m stuck in a hard place. She was alternating between myself and her dad so I think that really caused some upheaval in her life. That’s stopped now and she’s fully with me. I have another child who’s small and we live with my little ones dad. It’s a real home so we thought she needed that base. That’s why I stupidly thought we had dealt with the underlying issue. I’ve just spoken with pastoral, actually really impressed and feel a bit better now I’ve had someone to sort of vent it to. I think they’re in the same mind as me but it’s just such a hard situation whichever way you look at it

Yeh I did think that but I was just trying to get my feeling across and give a bit of background. Honestly I just feel lost with it. I want to help, because i do want her to be happy that’s the only driver not my own satisfaction.

It's entirely fine for you to talk about your feelings in your own damn post. Honestly. She sounds quite troubled. Framing it as "attention seeking" won't help as that's seeing it as some sort of personality flaw when it's not. She does need help and it sounds like you're on the right path. I wouldn't rule out HFA either and would push for a proper assessment. It can present very differently in girls.

I agree with Gigglr. I think her behaviours sound just like those associated with girls with either ADHD or Autism, or both.

Thank you, this is something I find myself in turmoil with that I say attention seeking and I know how unproductive that probably is but I find it difficult to describe what else it could be, especially when it feels like it’s time after time. She just always wants to please people no matter the cost but struggles to maintain those connections. Always in the back of my mind I think that being this honest in real life just makes it look like awful parenting, not that I feel like I need to be fake just that the pressure is unbearable to navigate this on my own so just thought the school was the best point of call in this situation and was surprised to find how supportive they are being without it flying off the handle.

have you tried giving her lots of time and positive attention? Her behaviour sounds like a cry for help to me. Like she's feeling abandoned (not that she IS just that she FEELS) and knows she can get lots of attention for negative behaviour or making things up. But she does sound really vulnerable too. I hear your heartache. Have you looked at "Active listening" where you just listen, no judgement, and support and then talk at a later date if appropriate. This might give her the space to get all her "stuff" out and then to reflect on whether it's true or not and feel really heard by you and supported. It's not about fixing anything or taking action, it's just about making her feel safe and supported in the first instance. xx

In the past when these things have come to ahead we normally you know, have a bit of an argument but then it mellows into discussion 9/10 Where I feel like progress is made, this was why she doesn’t really stay at her dads now. She thought this was a leading factor to her behaviour so we changed it for her. Then the cycle starts again. Her attitude changes and she becomes bit more, I want to say social media in the way she is in real life and then the secrets start to emerge. Then a lie and then the argument and chat. I thought maybe I don’t give her the attention, work and the little one take up time but I thought I made it so we could always talk to each other. I’ve always had her back so it hurts as well.

We went through similar. Pursue the mental health services, do not let it drop. Persist, persist, persist.

Give her loads of love and approval. Praise her for anything she does right and compliment her as much as you can. She needs your approval.

Boundaries on curfews etc. Be vigilant. This will show her that you always have her in mind.

Let go of any idea that you should be getting past the hard stages of parenting by now. She needs more parenting now than she did as a toddler. Do it properly now and she will be independent in a couple of years.

More than anything I just want her to succeed and not be like I was.

Of course you do but keep it to yourself. Don’t put that on her.

I really feel for you. It sounds exhausting and worrying.

I was wondering reading that, what does your dd like about herself? What makes her feel special? Does she have any particular hobbies she excels at or finds fulfilling? There is the possibility there are hints of a personality disorder there in terms of her behaviour but I think it's actually far more likely she wants to feel special in some way and has no other way of exploring that beyond the minor self harm/exploration of telling stories.

I know things are hard with the pandemic but the fact that she was better over lockdown suggests she doesn't have anything serious going on under the surface. Was she getting more time with you then? Are there kids in her peer group at school who are getting a lot of attention for having more serious mental health issues? Is there anything more positive you could think of that would be a good focus for her over the coming months? If she's very clever, is there a particular subject where she could have some one on one tutoring for her own interest (but also it might help her feel special). I think at the very least if this carries on, she needs a proper break from her phone and the internet for her own protection as certain mental health issues (and behaviours around that like self-harm) are very contagious. You don't want it to spiral even if it is done out of boredom or some other need for attention not being met. I think she needs lots of positive reinforcement too for the things you do see in her that you love. The more one on one time where you can focus on her good behaviour, the better.

It sounds like she is desperate for some attention and thinks the best way to get this is by saying and doing extreme things. Could you schedule a day every week just for you and her? Maybe she feels left out now that you have another DC. Don’t use this time to discuss these issues (at least not at first), but just to have fun together. She might start feeling more loved and understood and therefore calm down a little.

Also, the more you focus on just her mental health issues and actions, the more she will act out. She has learned that this is the best way to get your attention. Focus on doing fun activities together and showing a genuine interest in her hobbies and aspirations.

I think she was better in lockdown because she didn’t have that social pressure pot. She goes to a very small school so it has bit of a village community feel like everyone knows your business. She didn’t get into her preferred secondary and I’d say that was the marked change in her I think. I do need to spend more time with her and initially I did but as times gone on, I’ll be honest I’ve found it difficult to spend quality time with her because sometimes she just wants to wind me up and knows what to say. It’s a blessing and a curse that we aren’t miles apart in age. I’ll definitely pursue the MH support services because the problems just too big and I’m probably a bit to ignorant to handle it on my own. The social media is definitely something that she gets sucked into but then it starts to bleed into real life. I was unsure if I should have even posted here but I’m glad I have, I feel like I’ve been told some home truths. Which I know I’m guilty of so it’s good to see it from someone else’s perspective who isn’t involved in the situation.

More than anything I just want her to succeed and not be like I was.

What does she want?

I had a terrible relationship with my mother and a lot of that was down to her planning my life to not be like hers regardless of what I wanted / needed.

How young were you when she was born?

My mum's kneejerk reaction to asking for anything (from time with friends to buying clothes to the subjects I took at school) was to always say 'no' without any thought or listening to my reasons.

I realise I'm projecting my mum onto you but do you treat her fairly? Not easy when she has not been completely honest and has caused problems.

You are not her friend, you are her mother.

I think if it's difficult to spend time with her (which is totally understandable) if you can actively do something with her so both of your attention is absorbed by something while you're together, that would be good.

There's so much out there when you really look into it - learning a really cool language on Duolingo together, building a massive Lego kit, doing a course on Future Learn, learning dances from TikTok together, learning to bake really elaborate cakes as Bake Off is on. Or knitting squares together to make a blanket for charity so she's involved in doing something for others. If you can try to find something a bit unusual and creative it would be a giggle and then it will be easier to see the nice side of her and build on that. Just start with really low expectations bearing in mind where she is at the moment and expect her to be hard work and over time it will hopefully gradually change. And even if you have a really awful ten minutes doing something with her, you coming away saying 'we may be having difficulties in our relationship at the moment but I'm so glad to get to spend some time with you, I love you so much,' will sow some seeds and help move things in the right direction.

I think you would benefit on reading about attachment and adversity in childhood.

Your DD has lived through a lot of trauma and yet you don’t seem to have insight into how this may have impacted her emotional well-being.

From the snippets you have said she was born to a teenage mum so chances are you were not best prepared for parenting at the time? You don’t mention if you were both supported well by your own parents? Did poverty play a part in her early experiences?
You said you split from her DF so she experienced loss of a parent? Were they close? How did / does she feel about your separation?

You mention that she lived with him for a time? At what age? Why was this? Did this disturb the bond between you?

That is a lot of change and uncertainty for a young child.

Then you mention you have a new DP and young DC. It is odd that you didn’t mention him at first, usually parents pose these sort of dilemmas as ‘DP and I are having issue with DD’. How involved is he in her life/your parenting of her. What is their relationship like?

How does she feel about her much younger sibling? It must have been hard for her to not be your only child after such a long time. How did you try to keep giving her the attention she needed when new DC was born? Did she ever feel ‘replaced’? Has she ever accused you of favouritism? Did any of this occur at the same time that she was living with her DF?

Does he have other DC, a DP?

You said she didn’t get into the school of her choice. Did she lose friends?

You mentioned moving, is she close to her support network?

She has a lot going on and certainly needs a counsellor at least.

However given all her adverse experiences I don’t think anyone should jump to labelling her.

I think when you are thinking about the issues she has/you have with her you need to separate normal teen behaviour eg social media from dangerous behaviour eg self harm. You did come across as quite minimising of her cutting herself. Have you self harmed?

It is a medical issue and she should be getting professional help with it. But what she also needs is empathy and understanding from her family.

Have you heard of lovebombing? It may be useful to try with her.

Good luck

Yeh so we split up when she was about 3 I think. It wasn’t a nice breakup at all and over the years it’s been difficult but I think we’ve come through it the other side now. When she was smaller she would be with me all week and then probably her grandparents house, her dad wasn’t around too much and then he came into her life more and when she went to secondary school we tried the alternate weeks. Hasn’t worked so now I have her all the time and she can see her dad whenever she wants, we don’t stop that but she wanted to have more balance in her life and felt being here would be better. Her stepdad is very involved and absolutely adores her and she reciprocates that. He has probably been the constant person, very dependable and really just all round a good person. She loves having a sister but I can see it being difficult because naturally she demands a lot of attention. Not that my eldest gets ignored she’s always welcome to come and join in but spends a lot of time alone, which I think I need to put a stop too and enforce a bit of involvement. I would say the self harming obviously isn’t great but they are superficial. I do still worry but I feel like a lot of young girls go through this at some point. It’s just another major red flag in the situation. I’m not saying it’s been easy for her because we have struggled but I feel like now we’ve become established and things albeit have been strange this year, it’s been okay. We’ve had a good support network the whole way through her life. I know she needs help, and I feel like I’ve got a lot to go on now. Different techniques, now I suppose it’s just this initial conversation. I just want it to be different this time for some real change. No quick fix though which I think is the most daunting aspect, also inviting other people into your private life is hard. Maybe I’m completely missing a trick but I acknowledge her hardships but how do we get past this and move on?

Given she was reasonably ok during lockdown and everything started again when she went back to school could you maybe pull her out of school and Home Ed or do something like Interhigh and see how that goes or maybe look at a different schools/schooling options.

Some of the stuff you said she does just seems like normal teenage behaviour.
Certainly might have had a word about the inappropriate texts and don’t see the problem with the bf other than having a talk about boundaries and keeping herself safe and not letting him being a distraction

I wouldn’t have taken her phone as then that means you have no idea where she is.

I would be having a serious conversation about lying.

Once you lie and people realise you are lying then even if something does happen then why would people believe her.

From what has been said she has lied once over being sexually assaulted. Why does she think that people will believe her this time

She is seeking attention and is finding it easier to get negative attention. Try and change things to positive attention. It’s hard as I bet you need a break from her, but praise her for every little positive progress she makes. She obviously feels bad about herself. Sadly I am guessing that is why she cuts herself which must be scary for you.
Say things to her like - look at you, you did great on X, I really like X about you, you are really getting a handle on X - well done you, I am so proud of you, you are developing into a strong and capable woman etc.
Resist telling her off - find other language to explain what needs to be done differently next time.

I have teen girls, and I do understand completely what you are saying about teen drama. We have a rolling commentary most days and some of the situations sound serious (with their friends) Most of the time I don't get involved, it is hard to tell what is exaggerated and elaborate story telling and what is real. Tell your dd to ask her friends to talk to someone they trust if something happens, rather than taking on the problems yourself, unless it is so serious you need to alert the parents or school, but most of the time it is just a conveyor belt of teen emotion, and I listen carefully, offer advice only when asked and give dds hugs. Thats it. Sometimes they just need to sound off, and nothing else is required but a patient listening ear. I found dds decompress alot after this, and seem lighter and happier.

Are you making time for her and do you do things together?
Are you still having some kind of fun, banter, humour and family quality time, as well as one to one?
You may not feel like doing it, but the grumpiest most difficult teen can be 'warmed up' with a few hours of doing something they enjoy together, just the two of you.

On the lying front, we ask for honesty, but we don't always expect it. Teens have secrets, they have stuff going on, they may not always want to share. I do try and understand their boundaries and need to have some privacy. I don't treat my dc like friends, but I do communicate in a very adult way and respectfully even when they are rude, I try to remember that this stage will pass as I grit my teeth and count to a hundred as the door slams etc. I try to remember how shit it is being a teenage girl at times, and how hard it can be with so much pressure.

I agree with pp positively noticing and praising her will do wonders for her confidence, even if she looks and says she doesn't care, deep down she does.

I don't know whether she has a MH issue or not, I am not an expert, but for a child seeking attention, I would try and aim to give her as much as possible for now, she will soon be an adult and will manage her emotions in a far better way

That’s a really useful background op.

My advice would be to have former boundaries about staying at her dads.

You and her dad need to sort a concrete contact plan and not put the responsibility into dd. She needs to have consistency and security. You also need to make sure you have the same rules in both homes.

Does he know about the self harm? Have Camhs/school spoken to him too.

It would be best if there was a meeting at school with all 3 parents and Camhs to agree on a strategy.