Up to £10,000 fine if you refuse to self isolate

[chomalungma]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-54221862

""People in England who are told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace face fines of £1,000 - up to £10,000 for the worst offenders - if they fail to do so. This includes those who test positive and those identified as close contacts of confirmed cases.

It also includes employers who force staff to ignore an order to self-isolate. NHS Test and Trace will make regular contact with those isolating to check compliance/

The measures apply from 28 September and will be enforced by police and local authorities . Those in receipt of benefits or on low income and who cannot work from home may receive a £500 one-off payment if self-isolating""

So :

1. What happens if you need to get some food? Will there be support to help people get food etc if they aren't allowed out

2. This is going to have a impact on the economy. People aren't going to want to go out and do anything which potentially has a risk of making you a close contact with the risk of a fine.

3. It's gong to have an impact on schools - for a similar reason.

4. What happens if you need to get a test? I see that you have to get a test if you are self isolating and then develop symptoms. The testing system is not working at the moment. Will this stop people going to get a test because they are worried about getting a fine?

What needs to be done:

1. Rapid testing - in other words, make sure that there is a lot of capacity in the system

2. Ensure that people who are struggling at home can get food etc

3. Make sure financially people can get by

4. Look at the science behind self isolating and close contacts. Should a whole bubble in a school need to isolate for 1 case

5. Think seriously about the impact on people - the economy, schools etc. People are going to pissed off with repeatedly being told to self isolate - the 'boy who crys wolf' effect.

People need to be honest so that we can determine where infections are arising and why and then put more stringent measures in place to try and control the virus.

Interesting that pictures in the press of those queueing for tests often shows young men and women.

Pubs definitely need to up their game, not only making sure that they have the right details but also accurate details on when and where in the pub you are, a list of numbers is rubbish.

Testing availability and speed of results is definitely required.

A more accurate test is needed. The current test is not accurate enough.

What is progress on the blood test? That one may be what we need, though no test is ever 100% accurate.

Is there any legal penalty for giving a fake name and number when you go places?

you should give ID in a pub, not just go on your say so

its not rocket science really is it ?

No social distancing in a lot of pubs and other social areas , sporadic mask wearing even on public transport on the red buses this week in London, the weather getting cooler and kids back at school , what did we expect to happen ........?

@ runsometimes. In Scotland heart it would only be a couple of days self isolating until test results, but the testing system is such a mess it will be much longer. My friend had just had to take a week off as it has taken 6 days to get a test and result for his daughter. He knew it was due to a cold, but because she always gets bad coughs with a cold they had to get a test.

@AlternativePerspective I agree with you. I don’t think the government has done a great job on this. But equally we have to pull together and take personal responsibility. I was really peed off isolating coming back from France. We’d been in an area that had very few cases and live in an area that had far more, it was a blanket approach to an entire country so I think there’s room for more nuance in the system. Even though I thought it was stupid we did comply and cancelled two camping trips we’d booked (managed to get friends to go in our place so luckily didn’t lose the money).

To me not complying would be showing a huge sense of entitlement. Rules are rules and they are there for all our protection. I might think the rules are stupid sometimes but people choosing the rules they like is not how we’ll manage this thing.

I realise that since I am self employed but between contracts right now, and DH can work from home we are very fortunate. Not everyone can isolate as easily as we can. We live in a city where we can get deliveries easily, and have friends around who can help us. For some people it’s much harder.

We haven’t seen our families abroad since last December, missing both grannies 70th birthdays and it totally sucks. But we have to make sacrifices and we can only each do what we can.

But I resent those people who think why should I, or rules don’t apply to them. I have a bit more sympathy for people who are in genuine hardship because they are living hand to mouth and that’s what I want my taxes to support. I am angry at how the government have awarded contracts and the companies that are benefitting from this abd would much rather that money be used to support people, but we all can only take responsibility for our personal actions.

People still won’t self isolate and they don’t have enough man power to track it.

It also requires people to actually fill in the track and trace and a lot of people don’t or they give false details.

Pubs definitely need to up their game, not only making sure that they have the right details but also accurate details on when and where in the pub you are, a list of numbers is rubbish

@maddening we are pretty sure my DH caught it in a pub. Worryingly Test and Trace didn’t want the names of the people my DH was with. (He’d already told them anyway as they were work colleagues and none have symptoms). T&T said they weren’t going to contact the pub. Makes me question what the point of collecting the data is. They are simple not using it to track the virus. I was really shocked.

They just won’t be able to police it on the current rules. They can’t police eg 300 families who happened to have 1 child in a year group sent home. So a few unlucky people might get fined- at best they will be able to do spot checks. I do think they need to narrow down the self isolation guidance especially in schools. For example, my DD year 7 has a few close friends in her class and who she travels with. If one of those tests positive of course she should self isolate. But not it it is another child in another form she has never spoken to. Same applies to office workers. The government is going to have to get people to use actual common sense on close contacts rather than blanket rules and substantial fines they don’t have the capacity to police anyway.

I don't understand. If people are self isolating because they have been in contact with somebody that has tested positive, why would they try and get a test unless they have symptoms?

From an actually stopping the spread of covid approach, I think it is a shit idea.

Particularly when some of the isolation symptoms are so vague (continuous cough). All this will do is discourage people from getting tested, make them even less likely to engage with track and trace.

Bit like the rule of 6 which effectively encourages indoor socialising.

And local lockdowns not having a family childcare exemption which just means people who are normally rule abiding get used to ignoring the rules.

Beyond lockdowns, you can't legislate your way out of this. You have to have wide population level support which the government no longer has.

I am feeling pretty depressed about where we are at the moment.

Maybe they should just all be arrested and thrown in prison for the requisite 14 days

Yep, bang 'em up, in solitary, meals passed through a slot in the door.

That'd learn them.

I think a lot more could be done though. Requiring people to produce ID in places would prevent false details being given for track & trace, and premises NOT taking details should be fined. (Should add that every where I've been for a drink or a meal has taken details, but I gather from the experience of others that this isn't always the case.)

I think if bars etc want to stay open, they need to exercise some control re social distancing. I was shocked at some of the scenes of big groups of people in pub gardens acting like it was still 2019.

@Florabella Agee. The testing is a bit of a shambles. But we as individuals can do some things.
Not get tests on NHS for holidays (people were/are doing this)
Not getting tests if no symptoms.
Not giving false address details in order to access tests as not only does it skew data and response, it could inform incorrect lockdowns and resource allocation.

Shockingly in a test centre near me (SE) they aren’t allowed test non prebooked people.
However the staff were telling walk-ins to enter Aberdeen postcodes to book the test. WTAF?

The government for all its faults (of which there are many) can only react to the information they have coming in. In that’s incorrect they are going to make some really wring decisions. And they really don’t need any more help with that. 🙄

1. Support for food/medicine delivery already exists (mentioned on quite a lot of threads already) - delivery slots, friends, neighbours, and if you can't get any of those, voluntary groups and your local council hub.

2. yes - known all along, and go remember it's the Tories doing thus. Do you really think they'd be risking the economy if the alternative wasn't even worse?

3. yes - also entirely foreseen

4. home test, and hope the system really does get sorted out properly, and that they priorities those who cannot leave their homes for that type of testing

I don't understand. If people are self isolating because they have been in contact with somebody that has tested positive, why would they try and get a test unless they have symptoms?

Because either they are ignorant - no one has explained how incubation periods work; or they are thick - they think it magically doesn't apply to them.

Occasionally the employer is the ignorant one

I live in a university town, students have started to come back and let's just say there isn't much social distancing going on. I can see cases shooting up around here in the next few weeks.

If I have to self isolate with my children, I will, however I won't get paid sick leave, if we have to isolate a few times (which I can see happening as youngest DC always get high temps when she has cold viruses and she gets them often), I will definately lose my minimum wage job.

I refuse to live in a society where we sacrifice our vulnerable. The fact is that this disease has been proven to have long lasting debilitating effects

It's so heartening to read this. I have been shocked by the strength of feeling that we should just get back to normal and let herd immunity get established, because of the economy/mental health/kids/education. And some of venom directed at older people has been vile.

At 65 and still working, supporting vulnerable people, it's been a real eye-opener how ageist our society is and it's hard not to feel it personally.

“So a few unlucky people might get fined- at best they will be able to do spot checks.”

“Unlucky” how?

Older people particularly are advised not to answer phone if they do not recognise number - so some people may not answer phone to track and trace

I usually do not answer phone to unknown or withheld numbers unless I am expecting call from hospital etc and I do not have ansaphone. May cause problems!!

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

People really shouldn’t need to go out for food as we’ve known since March to have enough in for a self isolation period. I can’t imagine there are many who couldn’t book a delivery, ask family or friends, use local volunteers etc.

Not testing with symptoms and not isolating, ignoring T&T or giving false details are just show how selfish many are. This virus can be awful for some and devastating for families.

This assumes you have enough money to buy extra each week. Many people in this country live in a level of poverty that prevents that. They may not have a debit card for online shopping, or be able to afford the £40 minimum spend.

The £500 is a one off payment (not available to everyone)....but potentially you could be asked to isolate multiple times.

The lack of support for people who have to self-isolate is going to be a huge problem going forward.

Both DH and I are self-employed. If we have to self isolate for a fortnight we could easily lose 2k worth of income. Repeat that several times and that's a staggering amount of money to lose. I'm also a sole trader so if I'm off work and sick and have to cancel clients, that's it - money gone. I can't make it back by working overtime when I go back to work.

Plus the nature of my job means my clients rely on me to do theirs - if I'm too unreliable they'll just find someone else and I'll be out of business. I think a lot of small businesses and sole traders are going to be in similar positions.

As an aside - we went out for dinner on Friday. No one checked to see if we gave our details. We booked but were just told to sit anywhere. No link between my details and where I sat, and I could easily have gone in and not given any info whatsoever. The whole thing is a shambles.