Everyone is a photographer

[MadameBee]

Many years ago I did a city and guilds in photography (in the time of dark rooms) I did ok but these days I am a bit rusty but I learnt off the basics and realised what a skilled art form it is.

These day’s with the advent of digital photography it amazes me how many people with absolutely no training suddenly set themselves up (mainly on FB I admit) as a “photography business” with really quite shit photos.

Atm it’s really irritating me that we have this work FB page (nothing related to photography) and this bloke posts photos in there every day almost and they are monogrammed with his name (it’s ok mate I’m not going to steal them/print them out).

Obviously this is a first world problem but surely this must really grate on “proper” photographers?

I don't think it matters - if they are any good then people will pay for their work, if they aren't then people won't. The market decides whether their photographs are worth anything or not.

This

I agree there's been a big trend towards people becoming photographers, but I also don't see why you need a degree to be good at your job. So many jobs over the years you apparently need a degree for, when it was never the case in the past. It's even the same with pop singers now, in the 80s anyone could pick up a guitar and start a band, but now you're expected to have been to a performing arts school before you're allowed to have a hit single.

There are plenty of self-taught people out there in all sorts of jobs, arts and crafts. I hate the idea that you're not a "proper photographer" just because you don't have a degree in it.

I know what you mean but I also think a good photo is a good photo and you don’t HAVE to have training to take them. But yes there are some shockers out there. My favourite genre is wedding photography- so many bizarre affectations go on. A friend of mine had a photographer who took lots of photos of things reflected in other things and seen through holes, gaps etc. I feel like wedding photographers feel they need to justify their fee by taking LOADS of shots but tbh I don’t see why anyone wants 3/4 ‘artistic’ shots of the chairs and tables. One set of wedding pics included 3 of a bloody door knocker 😂

Having said that, a lot of amateur photography enthusiasts are really irritating

My father in law is a photographer and says exactly the same thing! Thing is I don’t think most people can tell what makes a decent photo (I know I’ve admired photos he has immediately shot down in flames!) and would rather pay a mate a couple of hundred quid to do some wedding photos they’re equally happy with than spend the £ when they can’t really tell the difference anyway.

I’m brand new to photography. Literally bought myself a bridge camera with high zoom for better quality photos but would never sell them! They are for my enjoyment and memories only.
A guy I know set up a fb page and his photos are awful. Shadows etc in the photos. I couldn’t believe he was trying to get clients.
My friend bought a very pricy camera and a very pricy lens and takes incredible photos but had no prior experience. You get what you pay for. If you get a really good camera and good expensive lenses and you figure out how to edit using all the software then I guess you could set up.
I really think you should be a professional before quitting your job and making money from it though, it’s not just taking pretty pics anymore in that case.

I don’t know. I have a few fb friends who have photography ‘businesses’ on the side of their normal jobs and their photos seem very average to me- but if other people like them and buy them then why not I guess. Also one girl who isn’t a photographer but posts photos from holidays and they are AMAZING, I often just go on her page to see her newest photos and they’re stunning and people are always asking if she does photo shoots etc but she doesn’t make money from them. Also seen professional photographers that don’t seem that great to me (and ones that are fab). Agree if people are happy with them and willing to pay for them it doesn’t really matter!

I think I hate the laziness of it all - people who are using technology to mask a crap photo.

@PurBal my parents are both retired journalists and say the same!!

@MadameBee I agree. However I worked in the print business when I left school. Retouching, masking, dodging and burning have always existed pre-digital. I still remember retouchers coming to where I worked to shave off 'unwanted fat' and correcting skin textures etc using retouching fluid. Correcting photographs is not new. That said, I work on the basis tjat getting there shot I want in camera, using my knowledge and training, it means that my post production time is minimal and I therefore technically earn more.

Equally though, I love a good composite and also recognise that photoshop skills mean I can gain work from a variety of sources. It doesn't pay to slavishly avoid digital trends if your livelihood depends on it. What's important is being able to consistently deliver what each client wants. The more skills you have, the more you are likely to earn. It's fine to be a purist if your family don't need feeding.

@RoseGoldEagle - are they Instagram photos, from her phone or shot on a dslr?

@WoobyWoo the minute a person takes payment for a job, even as a mate, they become liable for anything that their work incurs in relation to the public. So if a person trips over their camera bag, and sprains an ankle? They are liable. You haven't signed a contract with that photographer? Your friends could kick up a stink because they don't consent to being photographed. Your friend is photographing 'as a mate' but your venue requires a copy of their insurance?

It really is more than 'just paying a couple of hundred quid'.

Nice if you got away with it but actually illegal.

It's so easy to take a good snapshot with a smart phone - doesn't make a photographer though

I used to follow this website years ago but had forgotten about it until this thread.
youarenotaphotographer.com

Exactly @LaurieFairyCake

Being a professional photographer means that you will consistently deliver a standard, in a variety of settings that are often beyond your control, in a variety of conditions and with a variety of different people you have never met. You will have to agree a minimum number of images that meet or exceed the best quality you have shown them, deliver exemplary customer service skill to understand their brief that often they don't fully understand themselves. You have to be be able to interpret 'ideals' and convert those into what is possible and do so without ever making the client feel that their vision is wrong.

Being a professional photographer is SOOOOO much more that clicking a button or being able to develop an image in a darkroom.

YANBU. It drives me nuts. It has almost put me off photographs. I remember as a child developing photos in the cellar with my brother it was fantastic. It was such a cool thing and many a film noir required a dark room, with prints drying as a central theme!

I used to work on a professional lab we did all the work in our area (for miles around) for photographers. It was a brilliant business. Even then though there were amateurs that tried to pose as professional and we'd get a wedding in that they'd done, they'd have rolls and rolls of 135mm and there would be very few good shots in there. Then the digital age came in and the business died really, as photographers drifted over to digital there was less profit because we wouldnt be processing film and we weren't even printing as much because only the best shots were selected beforehand. Although less staff were needed because one new machine did the work of 3 or 4 old style printers.
Sad really looking back, it was an art, I loved it!

The problem is that what people think is good is often mediocre to someone else with more technical knowledge or natural talent.

I have a friend who is a photographer. Her photos are amazing. She does weddings and photo shoots and the end result is always top quality.

My sister is a photographer for her own pleasure. She is also really talented but doesn’t try to earn money from it. She tries to be very technical with her photographs and uses a range of techniques to achieve different things. She could sell her photos if she wanted to.

Everyone I know personally who is a photographer is naturally talented at it. None of them did official courses or submit their photos for awards. In my opinion, that’s no different from someone being a naturally gifted singer or painter. If someone is willing to pay for the product, why shouldn’t they sell it?

Someone’s photography skills speak for themselves. IMO you do not need any qualifications. If I liked their portfolio that’s all that would matter to me. If you have someone on FB making a business off it yet taking crap photos then more fool the people who view their work and book them in.

YANBU. It drives me nuts. It has almost put me off photographs. I remember as a child developing photos in the cellar with my brother it was fantastic. It was such a cool thing and many a film noir required a dark room, with prints drying as a central theme!

Reading this I am imagining Ican actually smell the chemicals I used to use for d & p!

Slightly off topic I do dislaike the way in which digital photography software allows photos to be 'enhanced' to the extent that they bear little relation to the subject.

I mean, surely it’s subjective though.

Most people don’t know much about photography, and there is a certain point in which the everyday person cannot differentiate between a good photo and something taken by a professional photographer.

People always complain about Brooklyn Beckham - I honestly don’t think his photographs are bad at all, His photos are fine in my opinion. Are they great - probably not, and obviously, the opportunities he has received aren’t down to talent, but the fact his parents are the Beckham’s, however nepotism is everywhere not just in the arts - and you know, if I had the ability to give my sons a fantastic opportunity to earn money, in a passion by they loved, and worked hard at, I would. And so would every other parent. It’s not fair by any means but it’s life.

Yes, and I’ve seen an ad for one such “business” appear as a link on a thread on Mumsnet. Those wedding photos were some of the worst I’ve ever seen; my cat could have done better.

We hired a professional photographer for our wedding, recommended by a friend of my mum's. I chose him based on his extensive portfolio and spoke to him before hiring.

It wasn't cheap but definitively worth it.

It wasn't just the end result, which was very good, but his professionalism on the day. He'd checked with us beforehand which group photos we wanted, knew the names of key people, so it all ran very smoothly.

I was blown away by this photo by Ansell
Adams - I think it might be the best photo I've ever seen

Oh God those photographs of Brooklyn Beckham's were dire.

The elephant one was spectacularly awful.