Are we all living this way or have I gone mad?!

[stardrops007]

Okay, so I'm not sure if I've just lost touch with normality here or if actually I'm living the "new normal"

Today was the first time in months that I met indoors with a friend (I know )

It was in the centre so I had to pay for parking, I found myself using a wipe to touch the parking meter.
Before entering the restaurant I sanitised my hands, once in the restaurant I sanitised my hands as I'd touched the chair before sitting down and became aware of possible contamination!

We then ordered a drink and I found myself sanitising again as I'd touched the glass.

We were there for two hours and I just couldn't stop sanitising.

I've come home and taken off all my clothes to wash them straight away.

My friend only sanitised before eating, but I noticed she'd touched the chair and other surfaces a lot!!!

Am I being OTT? Or is my friend quite relaxed?

All of your actions make perfect sense to me and are what I would do pre-pandemic, but I do have OCD.

It has been reported that this virus could cause more people to develop OCD, I’m not saying you have, but you’re not alone in this heightened anxiety.

@Belladonna12

You may not agree but that's a medical opinion. From more than one source.

Please link to the source demonstrating that all medics are agreed that the use of antibacterial gel for the last few months will mean that we no longer have working immune systems.

I'm not sure I said that? More than one source, ie more than one medically trained person (think nurse, doctor, consultant) I definitely didn't say all medics, nor did I say we wouldn't have a working immune system. Overuse of anti bacterial gels, sprays, wipes etc will lead to a lowered immunity to bacteria. You don't have to believe me, you do your thing, I'll do mine.

@myrtilles

How do those of you who don't hand sanitise feel about your kids having to hand sanitise continually at school and have their desks cleaned several times a day. I worry a bit about exposure to chemicals/antibiotic resistance with all the sanitising that schools, restaurants etc are required to do by government legislation. If it really can't be caught from surfaces surely it is government/WHO advice that is a bit OTT?

I don't like it. My DC2 had absolutely red raw hands before lockdown in March, and I think it is totally over the top the amount they're asked to sanitise.

Honestly, I think it's because it's one of the very few "visible" measures they have - it's basically a sop to feeling in control in an out of control environment. In schools, the risk is not from touching surfaces, it's from all the other bodies breathing in and out in close proximity!

High traffic surfaces I will sanitise after using. I sanitise coming out of shops. In a restaurant I didn’t sanitise at all until I was leaving rather than after touching surfaces I’d be retouching.

@Standrewsschool I agree and good article.

How do those of you who don't hand sanitise feel about your kids having to hand sanitise continually at school

Doesn't bother me. It's all part of the insanity. I'm not sure how much DC sanitise, truly. Maybe just faking it like me. I don't send them in with own sanitiser.

I dunno what you'll achieve, OP. I never sanitised anything (not even the first time out after Lockdown). I can live with more risk than you like. We haven't been sick with anything since February.

OTT.

It doesn't absorb through your skin, as long as your cups and cutlery are clean and you don't touch your eyes/ears/mouth etc it can't infect you.

I hope you can get some support for this anxiety. Totally unnecessary.

I suspect we're "living like this" but I've made different choices so have avoided being in that situation - myself and DC are shielded and it's difficult to shake off the fear that accompanies that description. I'm aware of being more anxious than usual, so trying to manage that by good exercise and sleep habits, and not watching too much news!

I've chosen not to meet anyone indoors yet, including homes or restaurants. Nobody has been inside our house since March. I've met friends and family for lots of meals and activities outdoors. I always take our own cups to use, and decant drinks into those carefully.

When we've been anywhere crowded (such as school) we wash clothes and get straight in the shower once we get home. I don't constantly sanitise when out and about, but that's because we're only in fairly empty outdoor places.

You are probably not at very much risk at all if you and your baby are home most of the day and you go to places where precautions are taken. With that in mind, I think probably all the sanitising was not necesasary.

No amount of sanitising will protect you from breathing droplets in the air.

I would say every virus I've had in the last few years has been brought home from school by my kids or caught commuting by train.

I have used sanitiser once today, after I went to the loo in a restaurant. I rarely use it as it gives me dermatitis.

Tbh OP, you sound completely OTT and abnormally anxious.

I think that understanding a little more about how viruses are transmitted could be helpful so that you can logically calm some of your anxieties perhaps.

Now I'm not medical or a specialist in any way but this is my way of thinking...

The main aim is to stop material containing the virus from entering your system through your nose, mouth, eyes (?) etc. It's my understanding that the virus could be on your hands for example, and not be inherently harmful - it's the transmission to these succeptible areas of your body that's the issue.

So sanitising your hands just because you've touched a menu or a chair doesn't necessarily make sense.

But sanitising your hands because you've touched a menu or a chair AND you can't trust yourself not to touch your face, or because you need to blow your nose DOES make sense.

And in reverse, sanitising your hands just because you're in a restaurant doesn't make sense.

But sanitising your hands because you've just blown your nose, or got a hair out of your mouth or something, and you happen to be in a restaurant does make sense.

Gloves in themselves won't help to control the infection unless you can pretty-much guarantee that your gloved hand won't come into contact with your face.

It's also my understanding that the virus dies naturally after 72 hours anyway, so 'deep cleaning' of surfaces which otherwise wouldn't have been exposed in the previous 24 hours seems to make little sense.

Then as a PP has said, think about 'transition' points - so entering and leaving places as a good time to wash / sanitise.

I also treat my car generally as a 'dirty' area because I think given all of the handling money / keys / shopping / bags / children etc. that goes on around the car I can't assume it's virus-free, and act accordingly

Anyway that's just my (non-specialist) way of thinking about things.

No op this isn’t how everyone else is behaving. I think it was very kind of your friend not to say anything, but I’m also not sure what she could say

You do seem uninformed though, for example on viral load, and the implications, even if it was possible to catch it from a surface.

Reading up shows you that although the virus can live under lab conditions touching it in real life basically kills it. It’s very delicate. However for obvious reasons it can’t be ruled out as impossible

What logic will tell you is that you would catch so little even if it was remotely possible you’d not even know you had it. The amount you ingest is what’s important. It isn’t some magic virus that one tiny molecule and you’re fucked.

Studies like the Heidelberg one show that even if living with up to four other people with it, you still only have a fifty fifty of catching it. Hence why Charles did and Camilla didn’t. They also found they couldn’t find it live on any surface, even with four inhabitants infected in the home. They found it on surfaces, but not live.

I’d maybe speak to my gp, your behaviour is both extreme but demonstrates a lack of knowledge, which is a dangerous mix causing your current excessive and obsessive behaviour. I’d also maybe spend some time educating yourself, as there is a lot of info out there now and a lot more is known that several months ago.

You're doing what you're supposed to.

No she's not.

Nowhere in any guidance does it say to wash your entire outfit when you get home. There are no guidelines that say you have to carry about your own cutlery or sanitise your drinking glasses with hand sanitiser. And why is it necessary for anyone to sanitise their hands multiple times while sat eating a meal?

It's massively OTT, and in the long run, it's dangerous.

You may go home and think those things about me if you saw me doing that, but I'm pretty positive someone who knows me well wouldn't!!

I think this sums it up - you are acting normally for you so no one would think anything over it.

But it is OTT and all a bit pointless. Fine for when we were in lockdown and trying to be as sterile as possible but now we are out and about I think it partly just makes us feel better

Have you posted before about how your the only one still socially distancing, just the OP in that post kept going on how they can’t for for dinner as you can’t stay 2m away from someone. It just sounds very familiar

When this started and we were in lockdown I used to change my clothes after the supermarket run (this was pre-masking), wipe down the shopping and then sanitise my hands. But at that point we knew nothing about the virus.

Now I go off to the shops, I use their sanitiser after I've put on my mask, do my shopping then I use the sanitiser again after taking off my mask. Shopping goes away, mask goes in the wash and that's it.

We went out to dinner a couple of times during the school holidays when we were away for a weekend. I put my mask on to go in, sanitised, shown to the table, mask off to eat etc. We nipped to the loo to wash our hands (as we would have normally), I timed that so we'd placed our order and handed back the menu and I did a quick sanitise on the way out of the restaurant as we were heading back to the car (hard surfaces) and that was it.

As I work in a school I tend to sanitise fairly frequently if I can't wash my hands - but washing is better than sanitising and I always wash my hands before eating, always have done so it's nothing new.

I do get DS to put his uniform into a black bag and change when he gets in from school and I do the same when I've been working. But I've always changed when I get home from work (the last 40 years in fact) anyway - business wear at work, casual at home - so it's just the 'putting them in a bin bag' that's new.

How long are you going to live like this? Years? I use sanitiser but I'm not carrying around a full place setting and weeing in a bush for the next year.

Going to stick up for you a bit here because, whilst it may seem OTT to many people and it may not be what they would have done, it is important to remember that you went out to eat today for the first time in a long time. If those are the precautions you feel you need to take to feel comfortable to see a friend and have a meal then go for it. You have harmed no one and it can only be safer.

The only time to worry is if you don't feel in control of yourself. But if sanitising 20 times and changing your clothes helps you - do it!

I think it’s an extreme reaction.

No need to call the doctors. But I think you should get out more.

I sanitise on entrybti a shop/restaurant. Then no wash my hands before and after I eat. That’s it. I don’t sanitise periodically in between.

I also don’t tough everything. But I would touch the salt, or a glass or what have you without feeling worried.

I think there is a need to call the doctors. Going out more is likely not going to fix this. I don’t know what it is, anxiety, ocd, depression, that’s for a doctor to decide but when you find yourself behaving in this extreme way it’s beneficial to grr help. As it is clearly a mental health issue.

You"ve not gone mad, and I don't think you have ocd. One key thing is that you say you are not distressed, ocd causes great distress. You have just got stuck in a pattern and are using sanitiser to reassure yourself.

I do thInk you have gone bit OTT, and are over obsessed with sanitiser...I am not sure if it even works to keep adding more sticky layers. You don't need to keep your hands clean all the time when out, just try not to touch your face.

Also emerging opinion is that transmission via fomites is less of an issue than first thought.

You are accepting a level of risk by going, which is fine, and you can't hope to eliminate every part. For someone hoping to eliminate as much as possible, I think this is reasonable....use glove for parking meter, sanitise perhaps once during restaurant, and certainly on returning to the car. Try to avoid touching your face and where possible, wash hands instead of sanitising. Changing when home is an abundance of caution but not extreme, no need to wahs clothes immediately though.

I'm not sure I said that? More than one source, ie more than one medically trained person (think nurse, doctor, consultant)

I am one of those myself.

I definitely didn't say all medics, nor did I say we wouldn't have a working immune system. Overuse of anti bacterial gels, sprays, wipes etc will lead to a lowered immunity to bacteria. You don't have to believe me, you do your thing, I'll do mine.

It will lead to a lowered immunity to bacteria if it is temporary while we are in the middle of a pandemic and it certainly won't lead to an increase in colds. Quite the opposite.

I would sanitise when I went it, then again before eating, would have visited the loo before leaving and would have washed my hands and used a piece of tissue to open the bathroom door as I left. Then I would wash my hands when I got home.
You probably did a bit more than me (I wouldn't take my own knife and fork for example) but I think at the moment we do what makes us feel secure, and each persons level of comfort will be different.