Am I being unrealistic about overtime?

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Posted in employment but no replies just yet. Here's the brief version.

New job 2 months ago. Good pay, easy enough work, ok commute.
BUT I was told upon employment that although my hours are 9-5, we have x amount of things to do and can't leave until they're done. X amount changes every day with no way of knowing until the shift starts.

I agreed thinking this meant the occasional 30 minutes on a busy day, but it's actually an extra 2-3 hours 8/10 shifts.

Due to childcare this seems completely undoable, I don't know how I could make this work when toddler starts going to nursery? After an extra 3 hours yesterday I feel like searching for a new job already.

YABU - Lots of places demand this kind of overtime, if the rest of the job is good suck it up and stick it out
YANBU - That will be a massive hassle to fit around childcare, search for somewhere new.

Yanbu!

An extra half an hour is one thing but 2-3 hours is not

When they told you it would be overtime, did they say it could be a couple of hours or did they dance around how long it would be?

That does seem a lot and not something most using childcare could handle I'd imagine. Do you get paid for the 2-3hrs or is it expected without pay? Sounds like it could either increase you pay dramatically OR bring you below the minimum wage...

I worked in a role where overtime was a frequent occurrence. Sometimes you were relieved but often you just had to see the job through. Luckily I had a supportive DH who understood and did the necessary re childcare. Are you in a union ( I wasn’t allowed to be). They might be able to advise.

Are you getting paid for that over time? If not no way I would be staying 2-3 hours

It was worded as "Some days we have more things to do than others, but it's a good team who always stays until we're finished and that's expected of you too."
It's my fault for not questioning wnat that actually meant!

We do get paid for it.

YANBU - your contract says a set number of hours, anything over that is free. How convenient for them to say once x is done, as it's free labour. You didn't agree to it, it's not in your contract. Look for another job ASAP or speak to a union rep.

YANBU.

The occasional bit of overtime is one thing, but doing it daily just means they either need to hire more people, or extend the shifts. Expecting people to work 2-3 hours late everyday is unrealistic and massively unfair on those with outside commitments.

I would look for something else ASAP. I'm not sure about the legalities of making you do this everyday, though. Maybe @flowery would be helpful? She's good at things like this.

If you're regularly working those sort of hours, your employer may be breaching the working hours directive. Unless you've signed an opt-out, the maximum you can work in a week is 48 hours. If you're normal week is 37 or 37.5 hours, and you're doing 2-3 hours a day extra for 5 days, you could well be exceeding 48 hours.

However, as there is no employment protection until you've worked there 2 years, if you started refusing and they fired you, I'm not sure that you could actually do anything about.

Similarly, if there's nothing about compulsory overtime in your contract, they can't legally make you do it, but you have no recourse to a tribunal or anything if they sack you because of this until you've been there two years.

It sounds really shit and I'd be looking for another job asap, tbh.

I don't think there are many place sof work that insist on you staying extra for 3 hours after the end of your shift. Other professions you might do 3 hours overtime at home in the evenings but that is fitted in around family life, ie after kids dinner and bed, expecting you to regularly stay until say 8pm if you finish at 5pm is unsustainable. Have you got a review meeting after 4 weeks where you can raise concerns and find out if this is normal for the place of work?

I don't mind doing an hour here and there. I even don't mind working from home on my days off. However its not expected and it's certainly not compulsory. In fact it's actually frowned upon! This is totally taking the piss. It's not fair or right.

Right now DD is looked after by 2 family members and it ends up with her being pssed between them when they get busy. They have their own jobs and it definitely doesn't seem fair to them or DD! I'll search for something more stable before she gets into nursery :)

I think it depends what you do. I'm a GP. I work 2 sessions a day which are 4hrs 10mins each. However in reality my hours are between 10-12 hours per day. Its pretty standard and I'd never get paid extra. But I think if it's a minimum wage type job (sorry I know you said good salary but this is very subjective) then you're not unreasonable to ask for overtime.

It depends a lot on the job and culture of that sector. I'm a social worker, we work extra unpaid all the time - under no illusions when you go into the job. BUT the team will try and be flexible and much of the extra hours are done on the laptop at home which can sort of be fitted in around family. I have friends in nursing and the police who have to work late occasionally though it is paid and again people will try and help each other out if someone's going to really struggle to stay. And in some corporate areas eg finance and legal, long hours are expected but it's assumed the very high salaries compensate.

Outside of either a vocation type role or something that pays exceptionally well, I don't think it's reasonable. It sounds more like it's somewhere poorly managed that is putting profits before staff, by keeping the wages bill down.

Depends how much you are paid. But generally speaking I think this is unreasonable.

It does depend on the type of job and the pay tbh.

I was a corporate lawyer for years - our contract set out our core hours but said something vague about sometimes needing to work longer.

Generally core hours were 9 to 5, and I spent years doing 9 till 9 on a good day, worked all night sometimes. In that sector it’s just how it is (or was, I got out a while ago).

If that’s the working culture and it doesn’t suit you then tbh you’re best off getting out, they won’t change.

It's not a "big" job like the police or social services. Nothing career changing.
More like a warehouse, we have to unload all the items, 900 and we'll finish on time but the order is regularly 2000.

I'm planning on doing some sort of open university course and sorting myself out.

Sounds like they need more staff if it's that much time that often.

Look for a new job definitely. If you were highly paid then that’s fine but it’s not on, even if you do get paid overtime!

They need to be careful. If your hourly rate is close to minimum wage and taking the extra hours into brings you below minimum wage, they are breaking the law. In my area several nurseries were caught out doing this. They only paid the staff for the hours they were open but the staff were expected to set up and clean before and after.

I despise the idea that overtime is a given in so many industries. I'm a nurse so I get it, shit happens and when it does you have to stay but when its a regular expectation its unacceptable. I dont care how highly paid or high up the ladder you are, if you're an employee (I appreciate self employed can be different) then your work should be able to be completed in your contracted hours with possible the occasional bit of overtime. Not this corporate bullshit of people working 2-3 hours everyday.

So yanbu. Especially if its warehouse type work. They just don't want to pay extra employees.

It depends on the pay but it could also lead to a sex discrimination issue. They cannot expect staff to be available for an extra 2-3hours on a regular basis.

Just saw your description of the role. Definitely unreasonable on their part and potentially discriminatory. Are your co workers men predominantly?

I dont do OT unless there is money on the table.

This is unacceptable. Most people have other commitments after work and can't just work an extra 3 hours at the drop of a hat. Are they as understanding if you show up 3 hours late because another non work related commitment lasted longer than expected?