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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu- diagnosis detectives on BBC- must be a set up

101 replies

30yearstomorrow · 14/09/2020 22:46

So just watches diagnosis detectives. Young women,s case...put on a lot of weight, hair loss...now I’m no medic or nurse but said to DH flippantly before they started their doctor’s discussion...polycystic ovaries. 3 specialist and numerous tests later...polycystic overlies...really?? Did it really need a bunch of “detectives” to figure this out when it seemed a likely cause to a laywomen....Aibu to say they have set this program up to be ground breaking when they’re actually dealing with stuff standard GPs should pick up. I’m shocked they made out this was difficult to diagnose.

OP posts:
30yearstomorrow · 16/09/2020 14:41

Hello everyone...interesting discussions and points raised- as well as really bad experiences for some of you. ☹️
I do want to say, re some responses, that I do know that women are at the naff end of discrimination re medical conditions, treatments and diagnosis....that was kind of my point....why were they making it out to be so difficult to detect, when it was clearly obvious to many of us as a top contender...and they really should be making that clear, that it should not be that difficult to diagnose with correct tests.

A1langdownthecleghole (???😯) I think you have it right...just using common conditions as they couldn’t find anything complex ? Then edit to make it look like finding out the obvious was difficult...

OP posts:
ScribblyGum · 16/09/2020 15:35

Completely agree with the posters who think the team really should have psychiatry and psychology represented.
I watched this with dh (a GP) last night and within the first few minutes of each case he said PCOS and I had pressed pause to check there is such a thing as functional blindness.
Of course the big gaping hole none of us can see if the patient’s previous history and investigations. It’s all to easy to make judgments with only a tv editors take on what is presented.
We were absolutely cracking up at the (?manufactured) dramatic pauses at diagnosis time.

My main concern is the HOT Orthopaedic dude is going to have zero cases to get involved with and is going to push Sharon Wong down the stairs so he can get some screen time.

ScribblyGum · 16/09/2020 15:36

Dh also apropos of nothing diagnosed the neurologist as being a psychopath because of his suit and slim build Hmm

movingonup20 · 16/09/2020 15:38

Same last week, I mumbled it's eds as soon as they stated the symptoms. Perhaps though it's a case of if you have/close to someone who has a rare condition its seems obvious but actually it's not

movingonup20 · 16/09/2020 15:40

@EDSGFC

The eczema man was American (on the airbase) and had only seen American military drs, not a good advertisement for their competence!

Batshitbeautycosmeticsltd · 16/09/2020 15:45

YABU. Some doctors are stupid. In an increasing number of areas, the NHS is finished.

EDSGFC · 16/09/2020 16:00

[quote movingonup20]@EDSGFC

The eczema man was American (on the airbase) and had only seen American military drs, not a good advertisement for their competence![/quote]
But he'd been admitted to hospital the previous year with sepsis - so would that have been an American military hospital then? Do they have such things on base?

EDSGFC · 16/09/2020 16:03

@movingonup20

Same last week, I mumbled it's eds as soon as they stated the symptoms. Perhaps though it's a case of if you have/close to someone who has a rare condition its seems obvious but actually it's not
Maybe but actually then why aren't GPs referring to appropriate specialists if years of non specific treatments of an undiagnosed condition is leaving the patient's life in danger eg the man with eczema or the lady with the vagus nerve damage?
brownbreadicecream · 16/09/2020 16:07

My absolutely useless ex-gp couldn't even diagnose my gallstones. A forum like this diagnosed it from my symptoms in no time. I'd suffered for years.

Reedwarbler · 16/09/2020 16:25

I read somewhere (apologies if it was on here and I'm just regurgitating other people's words) that men are usually described as 'suffering' from something, while women are described as 'complaining' of something by doctors. That says it all really Not all, but a great many GP's give the impression that they can't get you out of the consulting room fast enough and often minimise or ignore symptoms. I am sure nearly all of us have got horror stories. I refuse to see a certain (male) doctor at my surgery because he is rude and patronising.

purpleme12 · 16/09/2020 16:29

It's actually the woman doctor at mine who's rude and patronising.

CaveMum · 16/09/2020 16:41

Re Neil, the American man with eczema, I took it that he’d “fallen between the cracks” and didn’t understand that he could access NHS services so that would possibly explain how it had been allowed to get so bad.

He’s described as an “army veteran” so probably no longer had access to the healthcare on base if no longer serving - I live close to two US Airbases in the UK.

30under · 16/09/2020 16:48

I agree - I said Ehlers Danlos as the thin lady walked into the room! DH was mildly impressed 😁

EDSGFC · 16/09/2020 16:52

CaveMum

But he was getting prescriptions from somewhere so presumably an NHS GP if not on base and he'd been treated for sepsis the previous year - presumably NHS so how on earth had he fallen through cracks? Somewhere he's been massively let down.

Graphista · 16/09/2020 18:01

@sunbird24 I think I have hypoparathyroidism which a few relatives were diagnosed with late in life yet although I have symptoms - backed up by blood test results - can’t get anyone to take me seriously!

no investigations, just handed a pack of pills and told to crack on.

This is the experience of so many of us with gynae issues. I was the same, after around 2 years whatever pill I was on would stop being effective and whichever gp I had at the time would just put me on a different brand! Some switched brands on me without telling me purely out of THEIR personal preference this usually happened when I had a new gp due to moving house (army dependent).

still waiting to see a psychologist- presumably due to Covid restrictions. not necessarily covid, waiting lists for mh support were very long before covid

Perhaps though it's a case of if you have/close to someone who has a rare condition its seems obvious but actually it's not sorry but I think that’s excusing poor behaviour by so many primary care hcps

If a patient has a fairly good idea of what’s wrong - even if that’s from googling symptoms - then that should at least be considered.

I had a pretty good idea I had endo before dx from having come across some magazine articles where the symptoms matched almost perfectly and then from my OWN training as a nurse...and I was STILL ridiculed and dismissed and my symptoms put down to other causes. One gp even made a comment along the lines of all hcps should be banned from “bothering” their gps in their initial training phase.

Primary care hcps need to stop being dismissive of patients and actually listen.

I’d “self diagnosed” but couldn’t access suitable treatment around 10 years before I finally got official diagnosis. If I’d been listened to I’d have avoided:

Tons of time off work
2 mc
2 ovarian torsions
Countless gp appointments - not only trying to GET a dx but getting access to meds for symptoms which they refused to do by phone or on repeat prescription
Average 2-3 a&e admissions per year - I wonder how much THAT cost??
Injuries caused by fainting/dizziness

why aren't GPs referring to appropriate specialists. they’re “discouraged” from doing so in a variety of ways, financial disincentives, disciplinary consequences for “over referring” it’s a disgrace!!

@brownbreadicecream - that thread I started that I linked earlier I was shocked how many of those responding it was related to gall bladder disease! My own mum has that experience and I discussed with her after they cropped up on that thread. I didn’t know at the time (she hadn’t mentioned anything to me for ages of symptoms etc if she had I could possibly have pointed her in right direction) but she too had a hellish time getting a dx and then even after dx treatment. A big problem is women’s pain is minimised and dismissed, another is that gall bladder pain/symptoms often present differently (aka “atypically” but “typically” means “in a man’s body”) in women.

Our bodies aren’t only different in terms of gynae/hormones, because of our different reproductive systems and sizes organs, nerves etc aren’t in the same place/don’t work in the same way as in men’s bodies - common bloody sense you would THINK but apparently not:

I read somewhere (apologies if it was on here and I'm just regurgitating other people's words) that men are usually described as 'suffering' from something, while women are described as 'complaining' of something by doctors. wouldn’t surprise me at all

Iirc going back to that thread and the reading I did at that time and at times since it takes a female patient WITH THE SAME CONDITION 3-4 times as long to get a dx.

Again iirc I think there was at least one post on that thread where a woman and her husband had the same condition, same symptoms...and same dr and the husband was given meds to help with the symptoms and the woman expected to just cope.

I believe men are prescribed painkillers more easily and stronger ones too.

And medical misogyny is certainly not just Male drs, a lot of female drs are just as bad

Gps constantly say they don't have enough time/resources for patients, well if patients with chronic conditions weren't going undx and therefore having to repeatedly go BACK to gp surgeries to get help with symptoms/TRY to get a dx and instead got a correct dx and treatment plan that helped if not completely eliminated their symptoms then there'd be more appointments and resources available!

It's short sighted both in terms of patient suffering and in terms of finances/resources to continually mask conditions without achieving a dx.

Since getting a dx of endo I've only had one related a&e admission (medication for it I took a bad reaction to) and I barely need to bother gp about it now because I finally have one that listens, has some common sense about her and took the time to read the history including consultants recommendations.

That also bugs me - gps that "disagree" with and/or worse go against specialists advice!

They're the specialists! By definition they know better!

I've had to fight with gps to get certain treatments recommended by specialists because they think they know better!

Angry
30yearstomorrow · 16/09/2020 18:45

Graphista....sounds like you need a nice glass of wine or a stiff G&T😉 to recover from writing that! Sorry to hear you’ve had such a hard time

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 16/09/2020 19:38

Health experiences of my and my mum:

Mum: told she had fibromyalgia and to put up with it. Actually she had giant cell arteritis and was on the verge of irreversible blindness. When diagnosed (by me) her GP said it was v unlikely - she had all the symptoms and every single risk factor. So prob not that unlikely then.
Said GP still referred to her fibro even afterwards when DM was on high dose steroids for 2 years, it's stuck on my poor DM's records now. She never fucking had it and she nearly went blind!

Me: Found out about POTS after 30 years of fainting from bloody Mumsnet of all places. Went to GP when basically I was losing my job. No chance of a referral. Paid privately to see the amazing cardiologist on Diagnosis Detectives. Diagnosed in one visit. 30 years of being told I was mad/weak/hysterical/over emotional/depressed/anxious. Er no, I just have POTS and now I can mostly control it thanks.

Me: Uncontrolled migraines since forever. Response from NHS - zilch, as a 'perk of being a colleague' they sent me a letter with advice which made it worse. Again I was on sickness process at work so paid £££ to see expert - sorted straight away. Again - he listened and did not come up with any bullshit about stress/mood/anxiety/not being resilient and just talked about managing migraine.

purpleme12 · 16/09/2020 20:19

God this is so bad. I'm lucky that so far I've not had health issues as bad/long as people on here but unfortunately I can easily believe a lot of doctors are pretty shit
I've had some pretty shit ones about lesser issues so god knows what can happen about more serious issues

JacobReesMogadishu · 16/09/2020 20:44

I'll never forget the time a urologist told me that my recurrent UTIs were imagined, that it was all in my head and I needed to stop thinking about my bladder. I asked him if the positive result on urinalysis dipstick for urinalysis was all in my head..........he didn't answer but countered with telling me to lose weight as that might help. BMI was 28 at the time so not awful and I was very sporty, weightlifting, etc.

Thankfully found a decent consultant since then who said I do have a chronic infection and is treating it.

JacobReesMogadishu · 16/09/2020 20:45

That should be positive for leucocytes.

TheId · 17/09/2020 08:30

I realise this is controversial but I would like to put the other side

As a psychiatrist I have had patients whose undiagnosed condition was depression. They thoroughly believed they had obscure undiagnosed endocrine or bowel conditions but once treated properly for depression all the symptoms went away. Somatised depression and anxiety is a real thing and failure to recognise it is at least as harmful as failing to recognise a physical illness. Some people waste years pursing a physical diagnosis that isn't there. My patients had spent thousands on private appts and scans and all those Drs were happy to take the cash and not help them.

Hcps are not immune. I have at various times thought I might have MS (just needed new glasses) and bowel cancer (just had piles) and that my daughter had skin cancer (just a normal mole). I'm not a terrible Dr I was right about my mum's breast cancer and DH's stomach ulcer and most other minor stuff but when you know too much it's easy to get carried away sometimes.

If GPs did not gatekeep and patients went straight to specialists they might go to the wrong specialist and waste time and services would be overwhelmed. Vulnerable people who can't navigate services would suffer most.
I'm sure there are bad GPs as well as good ones but the concept of primary care is something we need for the NHS to work.

TheId · 17/09/2020 08:34

Graphista if you've got raised PTH (or not suppressed with a raised calcium) then that's not really arguable is it? I would have thought that hyperparathyroidism isn't something that's hard to rule in or out once it is suspected. It's just one set of bloods.

DoTheNextRightThing · 17/09/2020 08:42

I felt similarly. I know people can go years upon years without getting their PCOS diagnosed, so I can believe that it hadn't been diagnosed previously, but she had every classic symptom. She really didn’t need a team of 12 top specialists in the country to diagnose that.

Was also surprised last week when the man turned out to have eczema. It absolutely didn’t look like eczema, but all that research and tests and he had a condition that is incredibly common. Just bizarre.

Graphista · 17/09/2020 14:21

@theld - you would think so! Re the test/results I got. But the results have been dismissed as an “anomaly” yet they’ve refused to do another to confirm/deny - its a whole saga! This is what patients are having to deal with!

Interestingly as you’re a psychiatrist while I appreciate your thoughts on physical symptoms being manifestation of mental illness and of course that does happen - eg I have ibs which although affected by the endo it’s also very much affected by my anxiety I’ve noticed that myself

But as someone who is dx mentally ill I have certainly experienced several occasions where physical ailments have been ignored/dismissed BECAUSE I’m mentally ill too many gps as soon as they know you have a mental illness dx AUTOMATICALLY put almost everything down to that - even visible symptoms (I’ve had bruising, rashes and welts put down to mental illness!) or ones supported by empirical tests!

My local mh service a few years back put in a policy of administering certain tests (mainly for things like anaemia, thyroid disorders, vitamin deficiency, diabetes) or supporting patients getting tests as they were finding a lot of patients referred to them were actually found to be suffering from physical ailments which turned out to be what was causing their depression/anxiety rather than them “just” being depressed/anxious and as a result reduced their workload and were able to say to local gps that they needed to be more circumspect about referrals to the mh service and consider fairly obvious physical conditions given the symptoms the patients were reporting.

To paraphrase what one mh hcp said the gps locally were pretty much sending almost all patients reporting fatigue and insomnia to the MH service!

Surely as a psychiatrist you’re aware that this happens?

Although maybe not as in my experience psychiatrists rarely actually see/have much to do with patients supposedly under their care.

I've had major problems with my own mh care as a result of a mh nurse acting very unprofessionally and the decisions made about me as a result were supported by "my" psychiatrist - whom I've never even spoken with let alone met!

It's been almost 2 years of trying to be heard, being left basically abandoned for most of 1 year of that I'm housebound over 3 years by the resulting agoraphobia caused by my severe ocd which the nurse has basically said I am wilfully resistant to treatment (not true! I was BEGGING her for medication review, referral to psychology dept etc - which it turns out she failed to record honestly)

I've tried to make a formal complaint and met obstacles at every turn which has resulted in me being blocked from pursuing as I'm now out of the time allowed apparently, no consideration given to the fact it's extremely difficult for someone like me to pursue such a complaint with no support network to speak of either.

I have been desperately trying to find information on treatments and alternative medication (I've been left languishing on max dose of mirtazipine even though it's not helping) and am being told it's going to be at least another 6 months before I even get an appointment for a medication review and that appointment will likely be at least another 2 months hence from when the appointment is made.

Mh services in my experience in this country and especially where I'm living just now are a disgrace.

I appreciate they've been severely affected by the cuts but that's really not a good enough excuse.

Rant I know but I think it's important that hcps such as yourself at least occasionally get an unedited idea of what's happening to us.

ZoeTurtle · 17/09/2020 14:25

Aged 10 I went to the GP with unquenchable thirst, peeing all the time, had lost a lot of weight. Classic diabetes symptoms. He diagnosed me with constipation. Two days later I almost died of diabetic ketoacidosis.

It happens a lot.

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