To lend my sister more money?

[qazwsxedcrfv]

My sister has been with her partner for nearly 20 years and they live in a small terraced house owned by him. Her name is not on the deeds. She has a grown up ds and they have a dd (14) together. From the outside, they do not have an elaborate lifestyle. They never eat out, no holidays, one car, don't spend on the house, modest clothes etc, and they both work (him full, and her part-time). For some time now she has asked me to help them out when they've been short at the end of the month, and up until lock down hit, she always paid me back after payday. They were both furloughed and since March they've borrowed £500 from me, which hasn't been paid back (due to 'not earning full wages'). Today, I received a message from her asking me to lend her more money, which in itself, isn't a problem as I've always been glad, and fortunate enough, to help. Last October she told me they were in substantial debt and '£20 grand should clear it'. Now they're already an extra £500 in debt to me and I'm really worried for her. Her DP is a gambler and I've no idea if the debt is theirs or just his through the gambling...... or there may be something else happening as I just don't understand how two working people with an un-extravagant lifestyle could continue to run up massive debts like this. Her DP isn't very nice to her and they argue often. Our mum died recently and I'm sorting out the estate. Once her house is sold there may be about 20K or so coming to my sister. She doesn't know this yet, but she does keep asking me how things are going with 'mums stuff'. I'm not sure about telling her as it may or may not help regarding her current and any future debt. So, what I'm asking is AIBU to ask her about the debt? (seeing as I'm lending the money), do I lend as usual and just keep quiet? (as its none of my business), or do I say, no, sorry, not this time? I'm worried that the money she inherits from mum will go straight into paying off his debts and think that she may be better using it to leave him and set herself up on her own...... I'm sorry to anyone in this situation and I am conscious that I don't want to come across as judgemental in any way to my sister but I am worried about her.

I think you need to have a serious chat with her about her future & stop giving her money. You & she are paying for his gambling. If the gambling debt which it must be, as they live modestly otherwise, is his , she'll prob give all the inheritance to him. If she wants to stay with him I don't feel you should fund that tbh. She's an adult, it's her decision to live that life.

You'd never see the money again. Probably more cost effective to help her get rid of the loser.

This must be such a hard situation as a sibling who obviously cares a great deal about your sister. I think it's time for a significant chat, maybe somewhere neutral like a park, and you really need to stop lending. There's something amiss here and I hope she can tell you what it is and get support.

Nope nope. And nope

Let me tell you a little about my experience with a gambler. My husband has been a gambler since the age of 16. I didnt realise until we had been together over 10 years, they can be very clever about hiding bill's, taking out credit cards and loans etc that you wont have a clue about. Luckily the house was in my name as I was the breadwinner at the time. Things came to a head when I found out; his personality had changed and he was acting very strange. Deep down I knew what the issue was and when it finally came out it was actually a relief for both of us. He has since been going to gamblers anonymous for the last 10 years and has had a couple of blips but no where near the issues or debt of before. We are still trying to become financially stable as his credit rating was appalling and we had zero savings. He is still pretty terrible with budgeting etc so he gets paid into my bank account and gets an allowance each month, it is hard to trust him with money and I do struggle at times still. If i found out he had gone back to his old ways i will leave him in a heartbeat and he knows as much. Gamblers will not change unless they have the will to and make some serious life changes, my husband doesnt play the lottery, didnt go to his brothers stag do at a racecourse, doesnt play cards etc anymore, has given up all responsibility for his finances and that is the sacrifice needed. Gambling doesnt just effect the individual it will effect their wider family and they can lose everything.
OP you need to try and have a frank conversation with your sister. I have a strong suspicion from what I read in your original post that they are in a lot more debt than you realise and possibly a lot more debt than your sister realises, the 20k will possibly not even touch the surface and will unfortunately not help in the long run, potentially making the situation worse as he wont need to take actual responsibility for his actions and face the consequences and therefore continue gambling (My husband only did because I found out the extent of his debt and I threatened to leave him).
I would strongly advise you to talk to her, try and make her realise they could lose their house (irrelevant whether it's in his or her name if they default on the mortgage) and does she honestly want to put up with living like this forever with the hole growing ever deeper. No one needs bailiffs turning up at their door to take away their belongings! If she prefers maybe you could have a conversation with him about getting some help? Often those closest to addicts put up with it because it's all they have known or they have an element of denial. All I know is that of hes not actively getting help and you know the money you give them is funding an addiction then you need to stop supplying it and I would almost certainly find a way to delay or give your sister her inheritance such that he cant get hold of it. I know there are lots on here that say it's her money.she can do with it as she sees fit but is she actually being coerced to use it to either gove to him or pay off their debts in which case that's not ok is it!? Apologies for the long post everyone, I dont talk about our situation very often!

Give, you are giving your sister money. Not lending as she isn't paying back.

Yanbu in not giving her money. You are very entitled to talk to her about it as she is keeping your property (money) without that being the original agreement

Good advice Notsofast1. I would be really worried about the bigger debt picture here. It sounds like these amounts you are lending are just to keep the wheels on the cart. I would be concerned about where their money is going when they have no obvious big out goings and possibly not even enough money to enjoy life day to day. I would also be concerned in a 20 yr relationship that your sister is not on the deeds to the house yet, although it could be mortgaged up to the hilt. I think you might be seeing the tip of the iceberg financially and it would be really good to talk to your sister alone and give her a chance to think before she gets this money. Otherwise your Mums inheritance could be gone in the blink of an eye to service gambling debts. Good Luck

Realistically it wouldn't be lending, it would be giving.

I wouldn't. You aren't actually helping her, you're enabling.

I'd say sorry, it's not possible. You haven't paid me back the £500 I loaned you in march. I can't afford to keep giving you money.

As long as she can come to the bank of you, she has little motivation to actually change her situation.

Stop lending her money. Its not getting paid back and you are just enabling her. As difficult as it is as you care about her staying in this relationship ultimately is her choice. Speak to her. But you can't control what she does with her inheritance and the chances are her partner will gamble it all away.

Op I'd try to get a full conversation with DSis. What does she want?

Does she WANT to use her inheritance to provide for her own financial security and leave her DH?
That's the big question if she does then great make sure she's free of him before the money is transferred.

Staying with him it will end up going on his debts? Are all the debts in his name? Is she able to walk away debt free?

She has two children ordinarily I don't think it's fair for inheritance to skip a generation but would it be better for the money to go to her DDs, with you holding a trust for her 14yo, keeping it out of the gamblers hands.

Lots of discussion needed with her and what she wants. I don't mean to be really odd but your mum clearly has a house full of stuff, could some of that be kept in storage to help DSis set up on her own, even the small kitchen stuff that costs a small fortune when your starting from scratch.

hi OP,
Is your sister married? If she is she will be entitled to a share of the assets even if her name is not on the house.

If you can chat to your sister point out that if she has no entitlement to the house and spends the 20k (e.g. paying off debt) she will still have nothing and he will still own a house.

If your sister needs a little money for shopping for example I would lend it to her (or ask her to do an online shop and you will pay for it) but say to her "You still owe me £500 ...I assume if we find you are owed any money from mum's estate you are fine with me deducting what you owe me from that before I give it to you?"

Notsofast1 I could have written your post! Our stories are virtually identical - except we are a bit further on, and DH now has a really good credit rating, and has even learnt to save! You’ll get there.

OP - definitely talk to your sister. If the £500 is to help her and DC eat/live then if you can afford it it will help her out a lot. If it’s to pay a debt, then no. The gambling will never stop until things come to a head and the debt can’t be juggled any more. Clearing the debt does not stop the gambling, it will just mean it takes him longer to hit rock bottom and seek help, or her longer to realise she can’t put up with it any longer. I’d also have a chat with her about the inheritance to help her work out how to keep it safe from her husband’s gambling. Point her towards an organisation called GamAnon who help the families and partners of gamblers and were fantastic with us.

Also OP,
If your sister doesn't have enough money perhaps she should try to get full time work now the kids are older rather than staying part time?

It's time to say enough is enough. She doesn't need to be lent money, she needs help with budgeting and sorting the debt out plus whatever other problem there is. His gambling if that's what he's doing.

Why isn't she on the deeds? It sounds like they're not married either, so she could effectively have nothing to show for the last 20 years and he has a house that will be almost paid for. Also need to look at who's name the debt is in. If the debt is in his name and she has no claim on the house, she would probably be best using the £20k to leave him and set up on her own somewhere.

You need to talk about with her and understand whether the debts truly are 'theirs' or if they're his from gambling. Because if it's the latter, there's a strong argument for your sister to use the £20k to gain some financial security for herself rather than blowing it on his gambling debts and being back to square one in a precarious position with no security and the only certainty being that he'll run up more debts. Of course, if she's too far gone and can't see beyond him, she'll do as she pleases with the £20k, but then you don't have to join in by 'lending' (giving) her more money to piss away. She should also get a full-time job rather than be asking you to fund her, regardless of her frugal lifestyle, she's clearly not bringing enough in.

I would tell your sister you’re not sure if you can lend her the cash as you need it yourself and ask her why she’s in so much debt when they both earned up till recently

Is she willing to have a conversation about this?

I assume she knows her DH gambles? What's their arrangement to keep her financially secure from him, or is there not one? Are they his debts only, or are some in her name? How much is he plunging them further into debt each month? Has he accepted he needs to stop? Is she at the stage of wanting something to change?

All cards on the table with financial situation if she wants further financial assistance, you can't continue to enable whatever is happening, is he taking her money and she needs the money for herself?

Please don't ignore this, they need financial help, but not by aiding them every month.

Sounds like she’s in a financially abusive relationship. Have you spoken to her about this? Not sure why you’re ‘glad’ to give them money, he’s probably gambling it all away.

Don’t lend her any money. And when you tell her about the inheritance, advise her to put in a deposit for a home for herself.