References taken up before interview?

[Noculturehere]

Hello, wondering if there are any HR People out there with advice on how to approach this in the best way please.

I have seen a position that I would love to apply for, however as it is a role in education (administrative) references would be taken up for anyone prior to being interviewed. Delving further, it also means current role. I understand this completely from a safety point of view, working with children.

I am in a role and as I work for the SLT, and sit right by them, AND am going through the process of buying a house, I can’t scupper my current job by telling them I’m looking elsewhere. The role itself is so much more me and I meet their criteria skills wise.

What do I do? I can’t lie, it would be pretty unsustainable if I got the job! I thought about phoning them but they aren’t going to waver their policy are they? Does it mean only people that are able to be open may apply? AIBU to think this is unfair to seriously interested people in other roles?

Thanks

HR person here. I’d like to see the wording. Most organisations will allow you to state no references unless selected for/successful at interview.

Thank you @Feminist10101. This is the wording exactly:

References will be taken up before interview.

Could you confirm this is the case for support roles? My understanding is that references are only taken before interview with teaching roles.

How about you get a friend to call and ask on your behalf as if they were going to apply but were put off because of the policy. The friend might find out if they were prepared to be flexible or not on taking up refs beforehand.

It also says that of the two referees, one should be my current employer, and further down on the form it states ‘In accordance with current DFE guidance, Keeping children Safe In Education (2016), we shall seek references for all shortlisted candidates before interview.’

Yeah it's different in education - you have to take up references before interview for everyone for safeguarding. You'd have to just be honest with your employer really. Or phone the new place but I doubt they'll say anything other than they have to have references.

I think that’s probably the right approach, I’ll call them and ask that @FTMF30 - if this is definitely the case for support roles and explain why.

Thank you

@TheGinGenie

Really? I will still call them but there’s no way I’d be able, much as I’d prefer to, be open with my current employer. Too much to lose. It’s a pity.

You work in a school now? They won’t give a bugger plus you are prob on a permanent contact? Schools are usually very thick skinned about the whole job app process as it’s the same for everyone.

They MIGHT let you do one reference after a job offer as it's an admin role, but I wouldn't be too hopeful about it. Schools are generally (quite rightly) quite nervous about references. Whatever you do, don't lie though.

Paragraph 161

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/912592/KeepinggchildrensafeeineducationnSep2020.pdf

Your current school will be much less bothered than think they will. People leave jobs all the time.

What would happen if you were open with your current employer?

Thank you, very useful @TheGinGenie

@QualityFeet No far from it, I work in a big corporation that are considering redundancies.

To be honest if they're considering redundancies they might be relieved that you're looking elsewhere. Or if they're realistic they should at least expect it.

That said - I have done voluntary work in schools (reading) but my experience is definitely mostly not schools based.

Everything is explained in the Safer Recruitment section of KCSIE.
(Please God, if you are already working in a school, that you know what this document is.) You probably ought to re-read it as part of your interview preparation as you can expect to be asked a question about safeguarding, whether or not the new role is classroom-based.

@TheGinGenie I hear that point, but as I’m buying a house based on my joint salary with my other half there’s no way I’d take the risk.

Thanks @CloudyGladys

I work in HR for a school trust and can confirm that it's totally standard for references to be taken up in advance of interviews for all posts - teaching or support. It's due to safer recruitment practices. In my experience, because support role posts receive so many applications, there would not be any allowances made should you not wish to have your current employer contacted. As far as your current employer goes, as a PP stated, if they are a school then they will not bat an eyelid receiving a reference request as this is standard in education, if non education then you won't be jeopardising your post, no one can object to an employee looking for other jobs, awkward though you might feel.

I’m not really understanding, what risk do you think you would be taking?

I have recruited for non teaching roles before and if someone asked us not to take up references before interview, we wouldn’t. However, if we appointed, it would be subject to references, and we have rescinded our offer of employment before due to poor references.

@TheGinGenie I’m fairly new in the role and they have invested a lot of time in me with the role - it’s a support role but quite senior. It would not bode well, especially in this cut-throat climate where to even have a job is an accolade!

I fully understand your concerns re your current employers, particularly if there are redundancies looming. They will be looking at keeping committed staff as the last thing they will want is to make someone else redundant and then you to leave.

Tbh, I think you're going to have to accept you have to give this one a miss and wait until you've bought your new house.

I looked briefly at moving into education, and it's one of the drawbacks of the application process.

I'd be honest (to a point) and tell the person who'd be the referee before it ends up on their desk. Try and make sure it goes to them directly if you want to avoid everyone knowing...rather than through everyone via being forwarded.

Say you're not really looking but this came up/someone recommended it/its always something you've been interested in...if nothing else you can give the impression you're not activity looking.

In theory, this shouldn't affect your eligibility or otherwise for redundancy. They'll have to use set criteria, and whether you may or may not have looked at other jobs is not one of them normally.

@PineconeOfDoom

I’m not really understanding, what risk do you think you would be taking?

Do you really not see the risk of telling your employer you are looking for other work at a time they are considering redundancies?