To be shocked that on demand breastfeeding caused tooth decay

[Ditheringdooley]

My 2 year old needs two teeth extracted and further fillings.

She was bf on demand and fed until 2 and in the night until at least 18m. I did attempt to brush her teeth when first teeth came in at 6m but not religiously and only did so after 12m but it was a horrific battle and she was still having feeds in the night afterwards.

Dentists say that this caused her teeth to rot and she needs extensive work- they suggest under general but I’m pushing for local as could not live with myself if she died under general because I had allowed her teeth to be effed up.

We did seek a referral to NHS over a year ago but never heard anything so will probably have to do this privately. Can’t wait for another potential delayed referral esp with current covid delays.

Any experience to share? I can’t believe this has happened to us. I thought ‘bottle rot’ didn’t happen to BF babies and with my second I will not allow bf at night past 6m.

I have to force my toddler between my legs and brush his teeth- I hate the whole process. He screams like he's in so much pain. I'm assuming it's a sensory thing but there's no way around it. Both me and my DH have terrible teeth and I'm petrified of my DC following suit. In our case, the dentist queried DCs diet (mine loves acidic foods- plain yoghurt, etc.). We don't have sweets, dried fruit or juices but what DC does have can cause decay- tomato based pasta sauce, etc. Don't blame yourself for what's happened anymore- it is what it is. Get yourself determined to brush your child's teeth religiously going forward and please go for the GA- I had a tooth removed as a teeth under local A and it put me off the dentist for years. It was horrendous- I felt every tug/pull/pokes/prods.

OP you've said that being told it was bad brushing isn't helpful. I'm so glad it's been repeated as someone on the fence regarding breastfeeding doesn't need to be put off. The huge reason her teeth are rotten are because you didn't brush them properly. I breastfed a toddler for2+ years with no issues due to good thorough brushing

There’s virtually hardly any kids being bf at 2 in this country. In fact they used to find it hard to collect data for feeding after 9 months. There’s a lot more reported tooth decay in the under 5s than that. I’d bet it’s genetic disposition (Coeliac disease can impact on tooth enamel) and not brushing teeth.

I struggled through many a tantrum with mine and moved to adult levels of fluoride very quickly.

You need to look at Dr Jack Newman's research to see very clearly that breastfeeding does not create tooth decay.

So. To put this very simply:

You didn't brush the teeth properly or effectively enough.

And/or your child has a genetic predisposition to caries (decay) that may need further investigation to protect teeth in the future (e.g fissure sealants etc)

(I'm dentally trainer)?

(Dentally trained!)

[quote Ditheringdooley]@falalalaoops she does snore a bit- what is the link?![/quote]

This. My toddler has problems with adenoids. Has had since birth. Dentist said this could also contribute to tooth decay since children breathe with mouth open. Look into it. My toddler is soon going in for his surgery to have his adenoids removed and I'm hoping it'll give him a restful nights sleep AND not cause anymore damage to his teeth if this is what's causing his dental issues.

I would demand a referral to a specialist to determine if there is a genetic issue. You'll need to know for the future

Not anything to do with BF. Dentist is talking shit.

DD was breastfed for over 2 years on demand and never had any tooth decay.

DS had molar incisor hypomineralisation. He was breast fed until nearly two on demand. He still did not have any tooth decay. Due to the MIH he did have his back molars extracted once they could see wisdom teeth forming which could move forward to fill the space of the molars with incorrectly developed enamel.

I know the thought of general anaesthetic is scary for you, but for a tooth extraction they are asleep for such a short amount of time, and the chances of death are tiny. It would be far better to go for general than local with all the misery that entails.

Please do not do this under a local. I still remember the needle when I was 6 for a filling. My son had milk teeth stuck in his jaw bone he had to have our under a general. It was scary but only a 10mins to take out 3 teeth. Unless your child has a reason to be concerned about a general - the odds of complications is very small.

Surely if the affected teeth actually came through the gum brown it's not due to BF OR lack of brushing, its due to inherent weakness in the tooth as it was produced in the gum. (Genetics, health issues, prematurity, antibiotics).

I think people are being too harsh to the OP. My toddler only really chews the toothbrush and eats the (non-fluoride) paste. Impossible to get a thorough clean of all surfaces of every tooth each time. (I expect all the perfect MN parents floss their toddlers too....)

Op, don't blame yourself anymore, it won't do any good. And it can be fixed.
As pp says, I really think you should go for general. My dc didn't have dental treatment at that age, but tube put through his nose, and put the mask on before the surgery for gas, both times he struggled like hell, and for the tube he ended up going under general. It was really traumatizing and painful to watch.

I didn’t have time earlier but wanted to say my dc also had to have a milk tooth extracted. We wanted sedation for quick recover reasons.
We were strongly advised to have a general.
We did and it was the right decision for dc. The anaesthetic was very light, it took less then 15 minutes and whilst they were distressed when they came round, I’m so glad they couldn’t remember anything from the procedure.

The fact that only two teeth are being taken out and the others filled means the dentist has confidence in you to do a good job with your child’s teeth in the future.

Otherwise they would take out all decayed teeth to prevent the risk of needing a second general.

So I really think you’ve got the best outcome here, that they are only removing the ones that really cannot be saved.

Dentist here

Theres absolutely no way you are going to be able to get extractions done on a 2 year year old under local. I doubt you would be able to even get the local in. It will have to be a GA

There is a certain type of dentist that likes to blame tooth decay on breastfeeding. However there is no real evidence, theres
evidence that initially breastfeeding has a protective effect up to 18mnths, then the evidence is inconclusive, but in ye olde days before sugar DC who were breastfed did not get lots of tooth decay.

If there is food left on the teeth is an argument I have seen, however I dont see how you can say it was breastfeeding that caused the decay as opposed to the food? The teeth are obviously not cleaned if food is left on them. There will also be plaque.

IME children who have multiple carious teeth have unclean teeth. I dont think ive ever seen a child who had multiple teeth needing work and no plaque.

The only exception to this hyposplasia, or a developmental defect, and if the teeth came through brown it does suggest they were hypoplastic. Teeth dont come through brown.

I breastfed my 2 dd’s for 5 years each. Perfect teeth & no fillings years later. My formula fed ds had 2 teeth removed and lots of fillings. No difference in food/drink/ teeth cleaning. Only had formula for 1 year.

My daughter was supposed to have teeth out under general but then covid happened and we havent had a date now.

Are some dentists up and running then? We were told it was only emergencies.

Absolute nonsense!

@PineappleUpsideDownCake

My daughter was supposed to have teeth out under general but then covid happened and we havent had a date now.

Are some dentists up and running then? We were told it was only emergencies.

Ours is up and running. We have all had check ups recently and hygienist appointment is booked for end of this month. Definitely not emergencies only. We are nhs (but obviously private for hygienist).

@DishRanAwayWithTheSpoon

Dentist here

Theres absolutely no way you are going to be able to get extractions done on a 2 year year old under local. I doubt you would be able to even get the local in. It will have to be a GA

There is a certain type of dentist that likes to blame tooth decay on breastfeeding. However there is no real evidence, theres
evidence that initially breastfeeding has a protective effect up to 18mnths, then the evidence is inconclusive, but in ye olde days before sugar DC who were breastfed did not get lots of tooth decay.

If there is food left on the teeth is an argument I have seen, however I dont see how you can say it was breastfeeding that caused the decay as opposed to the food? The teeth are obviously not cleaned if food is left on them. There will also be plaque.

IME children who have multiple carious teeth have unclean teeth. I dont think ive ever seen a child who had multiple teeth needing work and no plaque.

The only exception to this hyposplasia, or a developmental defect, and if the teeth came through brown it does suggest they were hypoplastic. Teeth dont come through brown.

Thanks for that clarification of the medical term. I have some medical knowledge but am not a dentist.

Im a dentist. Decay doesnt exist in a vacuum - theres a number of things needed, time (Ie sugar sitting in the mouth caused by not brushing adequately) substrate (sugar in breastmilk for eg) & bacteria (which everyone has)
But breastmilk is 100% a sufficient source of sugar to cause extensive decay. Ive seen numerous children that have required general anaesthetics for multiple teeth extracted where the only dietary source of sugar has been breastmilk.

When it comes to decay its frequency of sugar intake not amount of sugar intake, therefore breastfeeding on demand is a risk factor for decay.

I just typed out a long message and fat fingers mean I lost it.

The dentist did say that if we waited for an NHS referral (which we did request from another dentist a year ago but I think they never bothered to do it as we didn’t hear anything) they were likely to want to take out all 4 teeth. That makes some sense in the context of what you’re saying about them wanting to avoid needing to go back.

But I don’t see how a child could get from 2.5/3 to 7 when the adult front teeth come in, without the top 4 teeth! Wouldn’t that cause all kinds of speech as well as dietary issues.

The two really bad teeth (lateral incisors) came in brown and basically crumbled and were never ‘full’ teeth. Some decay has spread to the teeth next to them (central incisors) but we’re told that restorative treatment should work on them.

I literally have tried flossing her teeth a couple of times- that really isn’t possible!

Thanks for all comments (now caught up) and it does seem from the second/ third pages that there is some experience of people who have bf having some experience of decay/ problems.

Should say, she was full term - so not premature. I did eat mostly potato while preg as could not stomach much else but took vitamins etc. Had antibiotics for infection but not the kind that impact teeth. Was fairly stressed throughout but no major issues.

She was born healthy and had anemia/ low vit d last year (poor eater - just wanted bf constantly) but now treated. Growing normally and very advanced speech etc. So hard to pinpoint an issue.

I do have lots of cavities etc so I must carry the bacteria for tooth decay (but my own oral health suffered when she was a baby and once your teeth go bad you can never get them back to how they were).

*pinpoint a specific dietary issue I mean.

Did you have any medication when you were pregnant? My younfese daughter had soft enamel possibly due to a course of antibiotics I had. Whilst irregular brushing is far from ideal, I think a bit of bad luck is involved.

@Redcliffe14 thank you for the message.

It sounds like the period when she was reverse cycling and feeding at night every 1-2 hours when I went back to work was likely a danger time for the teeth coming in then - she was 8-9m at that point and the problematic teeth appeared at 9-10m I believe. Lower saliva flow but very regular sugar via the breastfeeding at night then.

One thing I don’t understand is that isn’t bf on demand the historical norm? I know bf declined a lot in the 60’s/70’s but before that- wasn’t everyone bf on demand? And was fluoridated toothpaste a thing for children?

But infant tooth decay seems to be a modern thing. Yes we have a lot more sugar in the diet of course. But excluding that - why wasn’t this a historical problem? Or maybe it was?