...if you were allowed to gamble like it was 2019?

[elmouno]

If you were given the choice, would you just resume life as it was in 2019 and let everyone make their own choices?

YABU: People need these 2020 rules for their own good and must be forced to comply at all costs.

YANBU: This is all getting tiring now, and I would like to take my chances, just like I took my chances in 2019 with TB, pneumonia, flu, etc. Let me have my freedom and decide for myself what I feel comfortable with.

Nope OP I don't, but I think we should all show some maturity and do what we have to do to minimise the spread and protect the vulnerable.

@TooLittleTooLate80

I get it, there are some nice things like WFH and less traffic. But the issue we have is that we have become vulnerable as a society to any number of new rules that we have no voice on.

@ScubaSteven

Why can't we let people police themselves? The NHS is not overwhelmed and this will not be eradicated as is obvious. So what is the end goal?

I’d like somewhere in the middle. I think we need to get the economy moving again, and I think children need to be in school. I’d like the government to make it properly safe to do so, and to think much more creatively about how to do that, including spending more money on more teachers and teaching support, using local church halls and community centres for teaching and learning, and enabling older pupils who can to do a mix of school and online learning to do some work and classes at home. It’s been a real learning experience to see my shy, studious, 15yo daughter flourish from learning at home and for some children going part time is a real benefit.

I think those who can and want to should work at home and I’ve been lucky that my employer is progressive in that regard.

I’ve been out for coffees and meals and I prefer the quieter atmospheres because they’re less busy. However, I don’t know how long businesses can cope with half their usual clientele. I really miss going to gigs. I’d had some big ticket bands in my diary and they’ll not go ahead next year I think. I’m a uni lecturer and we’re teaching online next year which is new and feels uncomfortable right now, but to be honest we really should have been doing a lot more of anyway as it enables more students to engage with learning. I miss my shielding parents who live in another country. I visited in the summer (staying in separate accommodation) and met them outside in their garden, but that’s not realistic in Winter.

I’m happy to miss a few gigs, wear a mask, use sanitizer and take sensible precautions in order that my loved ones stay a bit safer. It’s not rocket science.

You've changed your tune a bit OP:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3849661-UKs-herd-immunity-strategy-will-result-in-8-600-20-40-yr-olds-requiring-intensive-care-beds-2x-the-number-of-beds-available-according-to-calculations-by-Harvard

I assume you are aged 20 - 40, fed up, figure that you are low risk now, and can probably work from home if the shit does hit the fan again, so fuck everyone else eh?

@AlrightTreacle

Yes, I've changed my opinion because in March we were told that we were at risk of overwhelming the NHS. That has not happened and now we are at risk of overreach. No one has stated what the end goal is, well, what is it? Eradication? Impossible. Vaccine? Didn't happen with SARS.

@elmouno

The NHS hasn't been completely overwhelmed, but it's hardly in a great state atm, patients waiting months for investigations and treatments for none covid issues, winter pressures round the corner, staff going off sick with stress and looking to leave their professions. Who knows what will happen in the future.

SARS wasn't a high priority for vaccine research before all this, given that there have been no cases anywhere in the world since 2004, and it was fairly self limiting as people were only contagious when they had symptoms, so very unlikely to nip down to the pub and have a pint while unknowingly spreading it. There have only ever been 4 cases of it in the UK.

I don't know what the end goal is, but I'm sick of listening to people who have the option of working from home moan about what an inconvenience all this is to their life. Yes it's shit, but comparing it to flu or TB or SARS is pointless.

Well you'd think they'd police themselves, OP, but they don't which is why we have ended up in this position! So many people having house parties, not social distancing and being downright irresponsible has led to this.

So yes, sensible people will and are policing themselves. Unfortunately the majority of the population, encouraged by the government with their luring of them to pubs and restaurants, won't.

I hate this too. My family is 4 people, my parents and sister live together. We can't meet up as a whole group any more because it takes us to 7, despite the fact 2 of them are small children. My dad has just had a cancer diagnosis and it's his birthday in a few weeks, all we wanted to do was all get together at my mum's like we used to. And now that can't happen.

When stupid people put photographs on social media of each other hugging and out in pubs it really pisses me off. That's the problem, not families who just want to spend time together.

But I'll do it because I want to protect the vulnerable and not be part of the problem. I do agree with your sentiment OP, but I can't bring myself to ignore the rules because I don't want to be part of the problem.

God these threads are getting so bloody dull!
Did you watch today's briefing? Did you see the charts and the comparison with where we are now & where France & Spain are now?
Were you here in March when 1 month we had 1 death per day & 4 weeks later we had a 1000 per day!

I don't trust the prime minister, lazy and incompetent but I do trust Chris Witty & Patrick Valiance -

So interesting that it's a 50/50 split. I guess no one really knows what to do for the best.

TB cases are pretty much unknown these days in the UK, but they didn't used to be. My grandparent was confined to a TB sanatorium for 8mths when my mum was young. And I know of plenty of other families from the same generation who also had a relative that was. Surely using examples of diseases where there's no longer the need to worry, due to the mass general population being previously immunitised to bring the cases down to point where its no longer necessary, just reinforces that vaccines work when they're found?

@Catsup
I wouldn't completely agree with that line of thought because of international travel and TB being airborne. Not to mention that TB is still rife in many parts of the world.

But wasn't your point that people should have the opportunity to gamble, make their own choices? We all have a choice. Someone could refuse a tetanus top up if they sustained an injury that warranted one. They'd probably be bloody stupid to take that gamble, but nobody would stop them.

@Catsup

Yes, they should have the right over their own bodies. I bet some people don't even know about the BCG jab, and pass someone from another country at some point who has active TB. They may not even know it for years until they are tested since they may just become latent. That happens more often then you think, but there isn't this level of hysteria about it. It's just a sad fact of life but we carry on.