‘Appropriate adult’ in court - What does this mean? (Birmingham stabbings)

[Tellmetruth4]

I’ve just read a report on the initial hearing in the Guardian and I don’t want to speculate on the actual case as its clearly ongoing but towards the end it says the defendant sat near an ‘appropriate adult’. That’s strange phrasing isn’t it? He’s almost 30. Are they trying to say he has mental health issues or a low mental age? I’m genuinely unsure.

I feel terrible for all of the victims.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/09/birmingham-stabbings-zephaniah-mcleod-appears-in-court-accused-of

Appropriate adults are common in the legal system, they provide support to juveniles and other vulnerable people. They do not provide legal advice, but are there to ensure that the individual is treated justly.

I used to be an AA in a custody suite.

It means the defendant is a vulnerable person. Could be a range of reasons for that - disability, mental illness, living in supported housing, requires personal or social care, etc.

Do you really think someone acting in this manner doesn't have MH issues?

Yes an adult with learning disabilities or mental health issues could be supported by an 'appropriate adult' in the same way that a child would be supported in court.

From what I've read in the media (so may or not be true), he was known to have mental health problems.

You did not expect person randomly stabbing people on street not to have serious MH issues, did you. I would expect appropriate adult and as horrible as what he did is, it is important that justice system provides the correct support to all defendants with issues so they can get an appropriate sentence. Should work better on victim support though!

I watched at drama about Fred West's Appropriate Adult

I thought it was because of his level of intelligence

‘Do you really think someone acting in this manner doesn't have MH issues?’

I agree someone acting in this manner must have MH issues of some sort but there’s a line between ‘bad’ and not being in control. I think everyone who intentionally harms others has a MH issue whether it be a terrorist or other violent criminal but there has to be a line otherwise they would all get off with a MH defence or life in a secure hospital as opposed to a supermax prison.

Thanks to all those who explained, I was genuinely trying to work out if the journalist was trying to communicate that this was the act of someone very unwell as opposed to evil.

Again, without any inside knowledge of the Birmingham situation - in a case like this where the police very quickly and clearly announce that an incident is not terrorism related and that they are not looking for anyone else - usually indicates they have information already about the suspect explaining (not excusing) their behaviour - such as e.g. severe mental health issues.

A ‘vulnerable’ adult is provided with an Appropriate Adult. From the Appropriate Adult website about vulnerable adults:

Put simply, a person is now vulnerable if a police officer has any reason to suspect the person may:

have difficulty understanding the full implications or communicating effectively about anything to do with their detention; or
have difficulty understanding the significance or things they are told, questions, or their own answers; or
may be prone to confusion, suggestibility, or compliance
may be prone to providing unintentionally unreliable, misleading or self-incriminating information.
Relevant conditions include (but are not limited to):

mental illness
learning disabilities
autistism spectrum conditions
brain injury.
The requirement for an AA still applies if:

there is no formal medical diagnosis or opinion from a heathcare professional
it is a minor offence
it is a terrorism offence
there is a legal advisor present
there is no organised AA scheme in the area
the person says they do not want an appropriate adult
The requirement for an AA does not apply if there is "clear evidence to dispel" the police officer's reason to suspect.

I would really, really disagree with the notion that anyone who commits violent acts has a mental health problem. It just isn't true. It's also perpetuates this notion that people with mental health problems are in some way more dangerous than people without them, when in fact they are far more likely to be a victim of crime, rather than commit it

Do you really think someone acting in this manner doesn’t hAve mental health issues.

They could just be evil.

This is so heartbreaking and utterly terrifying that people cant even enjoy a night out. It’s sickening. I can’t get poor Jacobs family out of my head. My DDs boyfriend went to school with him.

I think there is a difference between someone who has undiagnosed MH issues and someone who was undergoing treatment at the time it happened. It seems like he was known to the police and known to be mentally unwell before he was arrested.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Do you really think someone acting in this manner doesn’t hAve mental health issues.

They could just be evil.

I believe in evil people. But they are usually not the ones doing random stuff imho. The evilness for me is in planning and targetting

Who’s to say he hadn’t planned it, though, @SchrodingersImmigrant

But planning and targeting can also relate to paranoid schizophrenia? If someone had delusions that someone was following them, out to destroy them then they may try to get them first?

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Who’s to say he hadn’t planned it, though, *@SchrodingersImmigrant*

That's truth. But so far all info said it was random so I go with that. Well actually it was somewhat planned, come to think of it. Why else have a knife

Do you really think someone acting in this manner doesn't have MH issues?

Bullshit. Most people who commit violent crimes do not have mental health disorders. People who have mental health disorders are much more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators of violent crimes.

Just because someone is violent it does not mean they have mental health problems. Some ppl are angry and violent.
Somebody with MH issues is more likely to be attacked than be the attacker.

Bullshit. Most people who commit violent crimes do not have mental health disorders

But this is not a "normal" violent crime.
This type of act is far more likely to be something carried out by a paranoid schizophrenic who has stopped taking their meds, or someone suffering psychosis. It's not representative of either violent crimes in general nor of the behaviour of most people with MH problems.

But it certainly isn't the type of act carried out by someone who enjoys good mental health. I do think many violent crimes are perpetrated by people that have personality disorders, but those aren't mental health issues in the same way you seem to be using it, they are mental health disorders.

@krakowDawn is absolutely right and wrote it perfectly