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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have unwittingly broken the law and be worried.

129 replies

nnnnnnnnnnn · 09/09/2020 01:00

I am Irish and was living and working in England the past 8 years. Anyway after covid hit , I lost my job[was only on temporary contract after taking some leave from October- Feb to do a bit of travelling] and signed on universal credit. This was fine and I stayed in UK but in mid May a shock tragedy happened at home and my much younger brother [only 11] was killed in an accident and so I returned home suddenly. The last few months have being hectic and I decided to stay in Ireland to help parents[dm was understandably in a very bad mental place] as I am their only daughter[was only me and departed db in family] and I returned to work full time here in start of August. Anyway today I was tying up loose ends in UK as I hadn't got around to it with all the upheaval in the last few months and was cancelling direct debits/UK phone etc and checking my English emails I'd not checked in months when I realised I hadn't cancelled my benefits before I'd left. I haven't actively used my English bank account since May when I left. Hand on heart and on my brother's grave, I had totally forgot all about it with everything that had happened and I instantly contacted them and told them I was leaving UK and to cancel it. I know I am in a different country but I am worried I could get in trouble for this. BTW I will not be keeping the money from this[it's not a big amount but not the point] and it will be donated to charity but aibu to think the UK benefits system could track me down here and get me in trouble for my oversight if they discovered this or seen I'd been working here in August and claiming there? I already suffer from bad anxiety [on meds] and now this has made me even more anxious.

OP posts:
ChickenwingChickenwing · 09/09/2020 09:33

@Boomclaps

We get UC in place of CTC & WTC, not in the place of jobseekers etc.
We both work (28h &39h per week), our wages are automatically reported to HMRC.
I have written in my journal twice. Most months we don’t do anything

Op was not working so comparing with your situation doesn't make any sense. OP did not have automatic reports to HMRC.

Lilymossflower · 09/09/2020 09:44

They will only want the money back. So don't donate it whatever you do, keep it and give it back.

growinggreyer · 09/09/2020 09:53

I think you are panicking and overthinking this. You are allowed a certain amount of time 'abroad' anyway and you have family reasons, it's not like you were on holiday. Send a message giving the clear timeline and asking what overpayment they calculate. Just be businesslike and give any evidence of dates you have.

heartsonacake · 09/09/2020 09:57

You can’t donate the money, it’s not yours to give away. You need to tell them the truth and set the money aside for them when they’re want it back.

You wouldn’t get prosecuted for a mistake, but you absolutely could for lying to them, intentionally withholding information and money.

FizzyGreenWater · 09/09/2020 10:03

I'm so sorry about your brother.

I'm too busy at work these days to be trying to deal with this

Well, that's not an option, if you want to sort the problem.

Don't donate the money, they will want it back. I can appreciate now that you don't want to open the can of worms as you have already told them that you were 'leaving', not that you had left etc.

What I would do is contact them, explain that you thought you only needed to contact them within 28 days (so August is fine) of starting work. However now you have been told that the previous payments, when you were with your parents, may count as an overpayment. Could they advise.

Enchantmentz · 09/09/2020 10:03

You are overthinking it op, they will most likely just ask for it to be paid back. You haven't left then intentionally claimed for a long period of time and have now corrected it. Most likely it will fall under their radar since you have ended it at a current date while they have the eye off the ball with covid. Either inform them on the log part online of the actual date you decided to stay longterm and let them do the math or leave it be.

Kiwirose · 09/09/2020 10:07

Benefits fraud is frowned upon and the government don't use empathy. call them and make arrangements to return the money. don't give it to charity. It isn't yours to give and if they did claim the money back then you still need to repay it.

Codexdivinchi · 09/09/2020 10:23

You will be fine.

I know people who live abroad and claim benefits in the U.K.! Many ex pats do it!

Sorry about your brother Flowers

LadyCatStark · 09/09/2020 10:23

@ChickenwingChickenwing

I didn't tell them. I just told them I was leaving the UK and to cancel with immediate effect.

So you lied Angry

Jesus Christ there’s some nasty people on Mumsnet. Did you miss the part where the OP lost her 11year old brother. Nothing else matters when something or that happens.

@nnnnnnnnnnn just leave the money in your English account in case they ask for it back. I’m so sorry for your and your mum’s loss.

Genevieva · 09/09/2020 10:32

I would view this as being on extended bereavement leave with the intention of returning home. It was only once you go the job that your circumstances changed and your home changed. Therefore anything paid before that was legitimate and anything paid after was not. As that change only occurred in August I would suggest that the amount is probably minimal and not worth worrying about. I am sorry for loss. It sounds like your whole family have had the most torrid time and it is understandable that such mundane things as e-mails and bank accounts would not be at the forefront of your mind.

Mollyboom · 09/09/2020 10:32

Ok- as it's not a dishonest claim then they will probably just accept a repayment of the money with possibly a financial penalty. They are extremely unlikely to prosecute for this.

Lineofconcepcion · 09/09/2020 10:40

@Mollyboom

Ok- as it's not a dishonest claim then they will probably just accept a repayment of the money with possibly a financial penalty. They are extremely unlikely to prosecute for this.
In my experience it is very unlikely under the circumstances any financial penalty, or any penalty would be imposed. Op should contact them and explain the very sad circumstances surrounding this. Everything will be fine.
IceCreamSummer20 · 09/09/2020 11:09

Whatever you do - make sure that in email or writing you tell the benefits office.

I’ll say again:

Tell the benefits office.

This is so much better than digging a bigger hole! You have only just discovered it and can give back the money - they will tell you what to do.

However if you ‘keep quiet’ or listen to any other stuff about them not being able to touch you as an Ex Pat, or worried about prosecution - if you do not tell them then you will possibly be in trouble and it will affect your credit rating and possible criminal record.

So please please tell them!

ChickenwingChickenwing · 09/09/2020 11:11

Jesus Christ there’s some nasty people on Mumsnet. Did you miss the part where the OP lost her 11year old brother. Nothing else matters when something or that happens.

I'm not being nasty? OP did lie. OP called and to tell them she no longer needed to claim with immediate effect. She could easily have told them the truth. I'm sorry about her brother dying but I'm not sure it's an excuse for deliberately lying whilst on a call.

LadyCatStark · 09/09/2020 11:49

@ChickenwingChickenwing because she panicked? Because she didn’t know what to do? Because she’s got enough to think about at the moment?

There was no need for the stupid angry face.

Corono · 09/09/2020 12:15

I'm not being nasty? OP did lie. OP called and to tell them she no longer needed to claim with immediate effect. She could easily have told them the truth. I'm sorry about her brother dying but I'm not sure it's an excuse for deliberately lying whilst on a call.

My god! What a total lack of empathy. I'm glad I don't share a life with people like you.

The OP didn't lie, her initial reaction was just to stop the situation immediately. Maybe at the time of realising that she'd forgotten to inform them had shocked her and she didn't want to discuss the reasons why it happened. Perhaps the OP needs to compose herself to be able to discuss the situation without breaking down?

There was no deliberate lie at all.

OP, when you feel able, discuss this with them, you'll find that they will be empathetic and understanding. You've acted as what you are a bereaved and shocked sister.

I'm so sorry you've lost your brother and so young.

ChickenwingChickenwing · 09/09/2020 12:21

Don't have a go at me for someone else's behaviour.

Corono · 09/09/2020 12:22

Don't have a go at me for someone else's behaviour.

@ChickenwingChickenwing I'm not, I'm calling you out on your awful behaviour, lack of empathy and lack of thought.

heartsonacake · 09/09/2020 12:23

There was no deliberate lie at all.

Corono She did deliberately lie. She said:

Ok well if I tell them I thought I'd be investigated and face potential prosecution.

She thought she’d be prosecuted for telling the truth so she lied. While the reasons for her forgetting are understandable and tragic, they are not an excuse and are really irrelevant.

She needs to tell the truth and set the money aside for when they want it back.

ChickenwingChickenwing · 09/09/2020 12:33

I'm not, I'm calling you out on your awful behaviour, lack of empathy and lack of thought.

Deliberately giving the wrong date to the authorities when ending a claim for Uc is awful behaviour. Pointing it out is not. I'm not lacking in empathy but OP isn't here for that. OP is here for people to back up her DP claim that the ' U.K. cannot touch her'. If OP wants empathy I can give it in bucketloads, but this post is t about that and you know it.

MilerVino · 09/09/2020 12:41

Surely if you don't complete your journal each month you don't get the money paid in.

Certainly if you are claiming the JSA element of UC you have to report your earnings each month,, even under lockdown. During the strictest parts of lockdown they weren't checking that people were updating with their activities daily. However, if the OP was claiming under one of the new govt schemes, who knows.

As for the rest, grief can make you act in very irrational ways that you wouldn't normally contemplate. I'd make allowances for this.

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 09/09/2020 12:46

Unless your account is closed I would contact them via the account explains the situation and asking how you pay it back

Sorry you have been through such a difficult time. If you are will to pay the money back that’s fine

FortniteBoysMum · 09/09/2020 12:54

Do not donate it. They will request the funds back from when you started the new job at the very least. You need to call. Explain and ask them how much you need to repay. Otherwise you risk legal action for receiving an overpayment. They will not let you keep it just because it went to charity you will be made to pay this back.

HyacynthBucket · 09/09/2020 12:58

Don't wait for a call. Write or phone them and offer the money back. You should pay it back one way or another. It will reflect less badly on you if you take the initiative to repay it rather than wait to be asked.

FuriousCheekyFucker · 09/09/2020 13:01

OP isn't interested in advice as to how to pay it back and avoid prosecution, so save your help folk.

OP is interested in how she can keep the money and get away with it...the question should be rephrased to "If I pocket the cash and tell them I have given it to charity, will they pursue repayment/prosecution".

The tale about her brother dying is smoke and mirrors to illicit sympathy and dissuade questioning about her behaviour.

Seems to be working with some of you.