Grammar Question

[whoknows1230]

Posting in here for traffic!

Recently I have seen lots of Xmas decorations which say things like "Christmas at the Smiths".

Shouldn't it have an apostrophe after it because it is implying that you're going to the Smiths' house (and their house has more than one person living in it) for Xmas i.e. Christmas at the Smiths'

But what happens if the surname ends in S? Would it also be Christmas at the Andrews'?

I thought I was fairly good at knowing my apostrophes but seeing so many examples without one (or with it in the wrong place e.g. the Smith's"), I am starting to doubt myself!

You are correct.

Christmas at the Smith's.
Christmas at the Andrews' if Andrews with an s is their surname.

Equally if this was about a boy called James and his book then you can choose:

James's bag
Or James' bag (my preferred).

Book/bag whatever!

Actually it Christmas at the Smiths’ as OP said as Smiths is plural.

Christmas at the smiths'

Assuming there is more than one Smith. So they're in plural and the apostrophe comes after the s. If there is only one Smith, and they're known as The Smith similar to The Fonz then it would be Smith's.

@QuentinInQuarantino

Christmas at the smiths'

Assuming there is more than one Smith. So they're in plural and the apostrophe comes after the s. If there is only one Smith, and they're known as The Smith similar to The Fonz then it would be Smith's.

Perfect answer (and great username).

If the surname is Smith then it doesn't matter how many people are in the family. In this example you don't pluralise the surname. You are adding the apostrophe and s to show the possessive.

The Smiths are coming round for dinner. (The s is to show the plural, more than one Smith coming).

The Smith's house (apostrophe + s to show the house belongs to the Smith family), or Christmas at the Smith's (house).

Reader1984 - sorry but you're wrong. The family is known as the Smiths, not the Smith. Their house is therefore the Smiths' house - or just the Smiths' for short. You just add an apostrophe too show possession by a plural noun: the dog's dinner = one dog. The dogs' dinner = more than one dog

'to show' not 'too show'

There you go:

www.countryliving.com/life/a36963/christmas-card-grammar-mistakes/

Recently I have seen lots of Xmas decorations which say things like "Christmas at the Smiths".

I don’t think the people who make tat like that tend to be the brightest or best at spelling. Facebook is awash with badly spelt crap that people are trying to flog. Trust in your own knowledge.

@kitnkaboodle

Reader1984 - sorry but you're wrong. The family is known as the Smiths, not the Smith. Their house is therefore the Smiths' house - or just the Smiths' for short. You just add an apostrophe too show possession by a plural noun: the dog's dinner = one dog. The dogs' dinner = more than one dog

Sorry but the way I read the OP is that the family is called Smith, and the OP is seeking clarification on if you pluralise whilst also adding the possessive. I gave an example in my first reply.

Yes but you wouldn't use the preposition at with a family name. You would use with

So Christmas with the Smiths would be correct because it implies that xmas is with the family.

When we use at we're using a preposition of place - at the Smith Household. The house belongs to them. They are the Smiths (s for plural). The apostrophe that follows indicates possession and we have just omitted the "house" as it is implied through the use of preposition.

So Christmas at the Smiths'

@kitnkaboodle @QuentinInQuarantino Sorry but you are wrong. The family name is Smith. People add an S when they say Smiths because they have in fact added the s to show it's the 'house of Smith'
It doesn't matter if there is one or ten people in the family. HOUSE or Home is a singular noun so the apostrophe is before the s.

The family name is Smith and the apostrophe comes before the s. As in Smith's (as it is 'house belonging to Smith)
In this case it's a collective proper noun for all the family.

Some collective nouns have the apostrophe before the s - as in women's, men's, children's.

@JinglingHellsBells I don't want to be argumentative but I'm an English teacher so if I'm wrong it is really important that I know!

Although I'm convinced I'm right, you have sown the seeds of doubt and I've checked my books and also some online sources I trust. I actually have the attached book! All seem to corroborate that it should be:

Christmas at the Smiths'

Because it is important that they are plural. You don't refer to your own family in the singular, "hello, I'm Mrs Kardashian and this is My husband and Kardiashian, we are The Kardashian."

Keeping Up with the Kardashians is filmed at the Kardashians' house. (Family home, many Kardashians, apostrophe after.) Or Kris Jenner's house (here there is one Kris Jenner so the apostrophe goes first)

And although Christmas may be spent with the Smiths (plural people), Christmas is at the Smiths' (house - possession).

Please please do show me if you have evidence to the contrary as if I am wrong, I've been teaching it for years and need to know!

You say that people add an S to imply possession but that isn't right, we add an S to imply plural. As in "The Kardiashians have loads of money" or "the Weasleys have red hair."

Then you need to imply plural possession surely, using the apostrophe?

"The Kardashians' money is in a Swiss bank account" and "the Weasleys' hair is red."

@QuentinInTarantino I've been keeping my head down, but you have it exactly right. Other people are confused by the fact we add an s for both plural and possessive. The family are plural - the Smiths- so you just add an apostrophe. We do this with REGULAR plurals (those that add an -s to make a plural). For irregular plurals that don't add -s (children, women, sheep, people), we very confusingly add 's

@JinglingHellsBells it doesn't matter whether the possessed thing (the house) is singular or plural. It's the POSSESSOR that determines where the apostrophe goes:
the Smiths' house/ the Smiths' houses
John's house / John's houses

You can generally replace an apostrophe with 'of the' to test where it goes. e.g.

The boy's pencil - the pencil of the boy
The man's house - the house of the man
The Smiths' house - the house of the Smiths
The Smith's house - the house of the Smith

Christmas at the Smiths' is correct.

It's a bit more interesting when the surname already ends in an "s", like "Jones" or "Hastings".

In that instance, you'd say "Christmas at the Joneses'"
(Joneses being the plural of Jones), but "Christmas at the Hastings'" because it would be too weird to say Hastingses...

Elegant apostrophe use. I've found my people.

@kitnkaboodle

Elegant apostrophe use. I've found my people.

Coming up in the next episode of Elegant Apostrophe Use Janet considers whether to spend Christmas at her sister's, her friends' or her children's...

(SPOILER: Janet decides not to bother her arse with her ungrateful sibling, her two smug mates or her flat-sharing offspring and has a wonderful time)

@BoyTree

You can generally replace an apostrophe with 'of the' to test where it goes. e.g.

The boy's pencil - the pencil of the boy
The man's house - the house of the man
The Smiths' house - the house of the Smiths
The Smith's house - the house of the Smith

Exactly. As they do in Romance languages.

@QuentinInQuarantino you are correct

Christmas at the smith's would imply you're off to have Christmas Dinner with the person who sorts out your horse's (or horses' if you have several) shoes.

@nowlook and Covid socialising rules mean that understanding the difference between my friend's house and my friends' house more important than ever ...