...to think that Matt Hancock has a very strange idea of grandparents' day-to-day lives?

[Jourdain11]

His "don't kill granny" type comments. Does he really imagine that all grandparents are these poor, housebound people who do nothing but sit at home waiting for their children and grandchildren to waft past and pay the occasional visit?

My mother and stepfather, both in their early 60s, still work (part-time in my mum's case, full-time for my stepfather). They are both going to work, seeing friends, seeing family. They haven't seen me or my children since last New Year, incidentally, so if they catch Covid it won't be from their grandchildren! (They are in Paris.)

Does Matt Hancock honestly think that the contact circle of the average grandparent is limited to their children and grandchildren?

I get that it's to make people feel accountability and all that, but it's a little insulting!

@ancientgran of course he isn't, but to use the word granny is a generalisation of all grandmas. When he's 20 I'll be 62, so still very much an active person in society and probably still working full time as are many grandparents in their 60s today.

My 7yo has a 84yo grandmother. Other 7yo will have grandparents younger than me. But those GPs are likely to be at high risk due to class and employment whereas I'm sitting in front of a computer in my study all day and exercise regularly.

@QueenPaws

It's the opposite for me - my parents are in their 70s and in pubs/restaurants and avoiding me because I'm shielding

That's not strange at all.

The older people I know are out and about but it's the people younger than 60 with underlying health conditions who are being careful.

As far as they are concerned if they drop dead as they are in their 80s and 90s they have had good innings. They have actually had to be told to be careful.

Oh for God’s sake - he was talking on Radio 1 - trying to quickly and snappily encapsulate the message that young people might infect more vulnerable people. He mentioned long Covid as well. I think this government has been appallingly slapdash in so many ways but as far as that interview went it did what it set out to do, and well done that press office.

@RedRumTheHorse I guess they don't see themselves as old! They both just retired age 70/72 and neither have any health issues
God knows where my host of chronic conditions came from

Hancock has nary a clue about anything. He's only slightly bearable because he's less of a cunt than some of the cunts that surround him but he's a cunt all the same.

Since when have politicians known anything about how real people live,?

Hopefully this ridiculous slogan will come back to haunt him.

Are people being deliberately obtuse or do they really not get that 'granny' is a term to represent all vulnerable people regardless of whether they are male, female, have grandchildren or not and whatever age they maybe?

It's one word that makes people think about their actions and impact on the vulnerable people they actually know themselves....it makes the impact of their actions more personal and they can impact someone they know and not just some faceless vulnerable person that they don't know or care about.

If it said 'don't kill the vulnerable' it wouldn't have the same impact or make people think about their own actions. It is carefully chosen to make the message personal and hard hitting with the words 'kill' and 'granny'. It really isn't used becaue Matt Hancock has failed to realise that some Grannies are young or at work, some Men might be more vulnerable, or that other groups can be vulnerable too. Honestly he does know all those things. It isn't a statement to try to summarise all his knowledge about Grandparents!

This assumes that people become parents at about the same age as Matt Hancock (in their 20s and 30s).

As opposed to someone like Mick Jagger, Bernie Ecclestone, or the fifty something new dad Boris Johnson.

It doesn’t make sense on any level.

I can see what he’s trying to do but it’s not helpful.

But it’s fine if granny is at the other end of the country and might be able to give an entitled sod of a man a way to get out of doing any childcare!

agree @WombatChocolate
deliberately obtuse/argumentative

@WombatChocolate I think those who were shielding just got sick of presuming they were either elderly or dying
When people talk about protecting the vulnerable it's usually the elderly and people forget that the extremely vulnerable have to work
So don't kill granny doesn't really fit for a 25yo extremely vulnerable person

The vast majority of people who have died have been over 70 and especially over 85.

Most people who see the slogan realise it isn't saying that only Grannies can die. Most people can see it refers to the vulnerable generally (who might be anyone in the population of any age with a particular condition) and most vulnerable people understand that a slogan cannot list every individual category of vulnerable people and still be a catchy slogan.

So if people feel annoyed about the slogan because it doesn't mention them and their situation, plus other peoole are annoyed because they are Grannies but not vulnerable in any way, it really starts to feel that people are either just hyper hyper sensitive, argumentative or lacking in basic ability to understand how slogans use language to deliver a message and are not necessarily literal.

The question is whether the slogan makes people stop and think. Does it make them consider who is vulnerable in their life? Does it make them consider their actions and things they might be doing that put themselves at risk of Covid and consequently put vulnerable people they know T risk that eh have contact with. Does it make them consider their behaviour and change it?

If it does make a few people who understand the message change their behaviour, then it is working. Sometimes these messages can have a major impact on behaviour if they are hard-hitting and make people wise-up to something they just hadn't fully internalised as relevant to them before.

Of course, if it turns out that everyone is a bit daft and cannot understand the message, then it won't work.....but I have more faith in the abilities of peoole to grasp it, than this thread has suggested!

@WombatChocolate

Yes. Well put.

YANBU

I also think some of the responsibility needs to be placed on the old people - "don't commit suicide by providing free childcare", perhaps. Or "don't see the grandkids if you don't want covid".

Headlines the tabloid press would love, I'm sure. But this isn't a one sided matter.

Well, exactly.

And I don't care how effective it might me, I object to the use of the word "kill". It's just unnecessary.

To be fair he is more of a generation where grandparents tended to be older. Decades of loose morals and teenage pregnancies are now causing there to be grandparents at 40s and 50s! Back when I was a child it was more common for them to be in 70s and 80s or maybe not even alive at all.

@DarkHelmet of course he isn't, but to use the word granny is a generalisation of all grandmas. When he's 20 I'll be 62, so still very much an active person in society and probably still working full time as are many grandparents in their 60s today. Being active doesn't mean you aren't vulnerable, I'm late 60s and active, working, doing childcare for grandchildren but that makes no difference to the fact that I am more vulnerable than someone of 20. By the way I'm a granny not a grandma, love being called granny and would be upset to be called grandma so on that score alone I agree with Hancock.

Oh for God’s sake - he was talking on Radio 1 - trying to quickly and snappily encapsulate the message that young people might infect more vulnerable people. He mentioned long Covid as well. I think this government has been appallingly slapdash in so many ways but as far as that interview went it did what it set out to do, and well done that press office

Exactly right, I can't believe that people can focus on this when this govt has been so disastrous. Why on earth would Don't Kill Your Granny be anything other than a reasonable request.

Because it's not just the responsibility of the "young person". The way ministers like Hancock demonize young people, to try to make up for the decisions THEY get wrong, is not in any way good. Like I said, if an older person CHOOSES to meet up with a younger person, knowing that they are working in a people-facing role, living in a flat share, whatever, that is their choice and their responsibility! Why put the blame and the guilt on one party? And why "kill"? "Kill" implies intent and I don't think anyone, no matter how thoughtless or self absorbed, intends to kill their granny.

I don't even believe that this kind of messaging works. "Granny" may very well be intended as a metaphor for the whole older generation, but people are going to apply it to their personal situation - i.e. "well, I don't see my gran so I'm fine". A simple and SENSIBLE message, like, "don't let your actions put vulnerable people at risk" would make much more sensible. Even, "remember that you have a responsibility to others".

And for those who are going to say "what a ridiculous thing to object to", "who cares if people find it upsetting? Covid is upsetting" - well, a whole lot of things are upsetting. And young people committing suicide because they are lonely, out of work, depressed - I personally find that very upsetting. That same group of people being made to feel responsible for "killing" older members of society by, like, doing what they're being told to do (Eat Out, go to work, etc.): well, that really is a bit much.

It speaks volumes about his family and their relationships.

I can see his point. My parents are in their late 70s and all their grandchildren except for my son are either at secondary school or university so there is a real risk of one of them catching it and passing it on. They all go out and meet friends and in the case of my daughter's are in huge bubbles anyway
Of course not all grandparents are elderly or in poor health but since my children are back at school I have a mild panic attack every time my parents want to see us.
My dad is a nightmare because apparently Covid isn't as serious as they make out🙄🙄although I think he forgets he's not 55.
MH is about the only one I trust and he's obviously saying it to try and make young people think but I also think he should tell those who are older to stop taking risks as well.

My DC’s grandad apparently shouldn’t be hugging her because he’s ‘vulnerable’ but is simultaneously deemed hardy enough to be brought back to work to support the NHS (retired doctor).

I am no fan of Matt Hancock but people on MN love to deliberately miss the point and argue the toss.

Simply put, age increases risk of serious complications and death from Covid. It doesn’t matter if you’re a fit and active 75 year old, statistically your risk of death is much higher than your 25 year old grandchild.

My granny smoked like a chimney, drank gin like a fish and was overweight. She lived until 85 and peacefully died of a heart attack. She was an exception to the rule, as are some of the posters on here who happened to have children very young and became grandparents very young.

@ancientgran I'm nanna at the minute because he's so small. I totally get Hancock's message but I think it was overly emotive and once again placing full responsibility on one generation rather than making it clear that ALL generations have a responsibility to themselves and others. I know many people 60+ who have busier social lives than I do and they're not willing to put them on hold any longer, but I don't hear him aiming a slogan at them and their actions!