To just make a point about how hard teachers work.

[Poppadumpony]

Just inspired by comments on another thread.

I know I am not being unreasonable but I just want to say it!

Teachers keep 30 children with diverse needs safe, happy, occupied and learning from 9-3pm.

Teachers typically plan and prepare for 5 lessons a day. This involves finding, adapting or creating the resources for each lesson. (Average KS2 lesson might need: introductory powerpoint, items for practical demonstration, 3x sets of worksheets and a game). This prep all happens after 3pm.

Teachers need to mark and provide feedback on all the work that said 30 diverse children produce during the 6 hours they are in school (30x5= 150) every day. This also happens after 3pm.

Teachers attend staff meetings, discuss children with parents and create educational displays in the classroom. This happens after 3pm.

At any one time, a teacher is also likely to be doing one of the following: planning a class trip, preparing an assembly, preparing a school concert, running a club, writing a scheme of work. This all happens after 3pm.

Teachers work incredibly long, hard hours. Yes, they get the holidays. Yes other professions do overtime.

I am just pointing out that really only a third of a teacher’s work happens between 9-3 (high-energy work) and there is a huge amount of additional work to be done every single day, in preperation for the next. The pace is phenomenal, and there is zero flexibility in terms of hours.

Teaching is a very hard job. It’s why I left after 6 years, I just couldn’t hack it. I’ve done a PhD so I am not afraid of hard work.

Teaching is not for the faint hearted.
Those who manage to do it well and achieve a family life at the same time should be running this country, and I’m not even joking.

I see it didn't take long for a thread talking about the reality of job A turned into "omg As always think they work harder than anyone else in the world, like, ever".

Teachers whinge as though they’re performing some miracle public service. Yes, it’s a great service that they’re providing but it’s not more important than other roles and to be fair, it has a lot of benefits including a decent wage. I think whinging teachers should just leave the profession.

@Northernparent68

A lot of teachers have done nothing since the beginning of lockdown.

Goady much? And untrue.

I honestly don't know why people let ignorant and goady comments about their job wind them up so much. When someone makes a comment to DH (secondary school teacher) about how he finishes work at 3.30 he says, with a big smile, 'yep, and I get 13 weeks off a year, too!' (or vice versa). It really annoys them, which is much more satisfying than getting into some ridiculous 'who has it harder' misery competition. I used to do the same thing when I was an academic and people told me that I 'got the whole summer off' - I grinned and said 'well, I just sit around reading books all day anyway!'. If you know you work hard it's much better to be able to laugh at other people's stupid comments than to get obsessed with disproving them. You'll never change their mind anyway.

Some people haven’t read the handy list and are definitely repeating comments. Tut.

Hi Smile! The first week back was....um....yeah. Got loads of steps in though on my counter.

Teachers whinge as though they’re performing some miracle public service

Do they? Where? Isn’t it priests who bang on about miracles like, ALL the time?

I run my own small business and I work incredibly hard. I work about 80 hours a week, I also have to keep my 4 staff safe and employed.

I have no real job security, no holiday pay no sickness pay.

I get one holiday a year for 2 weeks and I still have to do emails etc.

It's all getting a bit Monty Python. Cardboard box anyone?

@SmileEachDay on threads like this! Teaching is a job just like any other job. Every job has its difficulties, teachers just seem to go on and on about how tough it is and how unappreciated they are. It’s a strange mentality.

[quote sillybean]**@Chanteuse* @cardibach*

Interesting! The unions should leverage covid - it's highlighted the work teachers do/how important they are.

And they should get a good PR who can spin any "workshy" comments if you have to strike, to get media and parents onside.

I think working conditions need an overhaul, which will hopefully improve reputation of the profession and most important the quality of education to children. [/quote]
The government have already employed their PR to blame everything to do with schools and Covid on teachers. I think you underestimate the negative feeling stirred up, which is of course why teachers are defensive.

but...us non-teacher folk all work hard too?

I think whinging teachers should just leave the profession.
Surely that depends on whether they're moaning about nothing (thinking about a particular colleague) or whether you're using the mumsnet definition of whining which seems to mean 'would like to get on with their job in a way that's reasonable and safe'.

You see during locky dozens of posters on here piled on with silly teacher bashing and suggesting people leave the profession for daring to point out a number of things that need to be considered to open schools safely. Apparently teachers need to positively think their way to resolve the issues of funding, buildings, class sizes etc

It's been rather funny seeing posters complaining this week that many of the issues teachers said needed addressing have actually been issues, and people aren't happy about the situations (that people claimed wouldn't happen because it's just work shy teachers being negative).

Very many teachers do work hard, very many do a really great job.

Is there really a single teacher that walked into teaching thinking that it would not be the case that it's a big job? Who didn't know they would be marking a tonne of books, work beyond 3.30, have challenging kids in their class?

It’s really not on to be mocking children in care noble

You should ask for that post to be pulled.

As a primary school teacher I work longer hours than a lot of others I know and fewer hours than some others.

All of the people who work longer hours than me and quite a lot of the people who work shorter hours than me get paid more than me. I get longer holidays than them.

However, IMO the most stressful thing about teaching is not the hours, it's the pressure put on you to get children, sometimes very young children, to perform in a certain way. I teach Year 2. Each year I am told in my performance management meeting that my target is to get 75% of them to the expected level in SATS. This target does not vary depending on the cohort, it just stays the same every year. If I don't reach this target, I don't pass my performance management and questions start to be asked about my performance as a teacher . There is no leeway if little Billy's Dad dies so he doesn't get to age-related at the end of the year. The percentage target doesn't change if two bright pupils leave the school during the year and are replaced by two less able pupils. Despite all the talk about pupil well-being and easing kids in gently, the pressure is still on me this year to get these kids to reach the same expected attainment levels as in previous years, even though some of them were out of school for 6 months. It will be that level of pressure put on me based on the performance of little kids that will drive me out of the profession, rather than the working hours, unpleasant as they are.

Its because no one sees all the stuff that goes on in classrooms. The 101 interactions with children are not the same as with adults and you always have to hold up the role of correct behaviour in a way you don’t working with other adults. Plus there is a performing element to it - that is exhausting to maintain. I think it is a unique job and unless you have done it, you can’t really understand the stresses. To teach for a day is interesting, for a week, it’s doable but day in day out when the driving dynamics are teenagers hormones is exhausting, stultifying and hard slog.

Some do, some don't.

Good and bad just like in all occupations!

OP started this thread because she used to be a teacher, then moved to another profession that appears to be less hard work than teaching.

I have a friend that went the other way from accountancy in the city to Maths teaching when her DCs were young. She said she finds teaching a hell of a lot less hours and much more family friendly than accountancy. She did say that the school you were at made all the difference though.

Teachers are not some amorphous blob, they are individuals in different circumstances. Some are working extremely hard, others may be able to deliver their job well but know which things to cut the hours without impacting the pupils. Some people are not good teachers and are not suited to the job and/or like others in other professions look to do the least possible.

The job security thing isn’t true, by the way. It’s actually very easy to get rid of a teacher via competency. When a teacher is incompetent, that’s fair and right. However I know of lots of teachers, at all levels (up to and including one head, actually) where their line managers bullied them and lied on observation forms (when only the line manager observed a lesson and they say it’s shit, even if you m ow it isn’t, you can’t prove it. It’s your word against theirs and they are more senior) And got them pushed out.
I realise this could happen anywhere with bullying management. I’m not saying teachers are the only ones. But job security? Not so much. You can be gone in 6 weeks.

Teachers don't have the monopoly on hard work 🙄

I have a question about lesson planning. My son has already been through primary and my daughter is in year 5 now. She seems to be getting exactly the same lessons as my son. I don't mean just the same subject, I mean also the exact same lesson, homework etc. Is this just because the teachers at my children's school are lazy and just regurgitate the same lessons year after year? (Which I'm fine with, stick with what works) or is this what all teachers do and if so what do you mean by lesson planning? What's to.plan if you're using the same materials and lesson structure year after year?

@SueEllenMishke

Teachers don't have the monopoly on hard work 🙄

Nobody said they did. In fact it’s been said several times they don’t. Are you an All Lives Matter type too? Because, you know, nobody has a monopoly on their life mattering.

I realise that’s hyperbolic by the way.

The teachers I know who were in the private sector first (law / banking) appreciate the shorter hours and holidays you get with teaching and really don’t moan the way the ones who have only ever taught do.

This. They make themselves look silly.

@JonasKahnwald

I have a question about lesson planning. My son has already been through primary and my daughter is in year 5 now. She seems to be getting exactly the same lessons as my son. I don't mean just the same subject, I mean also the exact same lesson, homework etc. Is this just because the teachers at my children's school are lazy and just regurgitate the same lessons year after year? (Which I'm fine with, stick with what works) or is this what all teachers do and if so what do you mean by lesson planning? What's to.plan if you're using the same materials and lesson structure year after year?

You have no idea whether it’s the same. You just know the tasks set are the same. Planning involves deciding how best to teach it to the class, any adjustments needed to include everyone, whatever scaffolding and examples may be given... Planning an hour’s lesson from scratch takes way, way more than a hour so in order to have any chance of any semblance of work life balance, teachers do tend to tweak existing plans where the curriculum hasn’t changed. Don’t worry, @JonasKahnwald, the government changes it regularly (especially at exam level) So those lazy arsed teachers will have to start from scratch soon enough. Christ on a fucking snowmobile this stuff is tedious.

@CokeyCola

The teachers I know who were in the private sector first (law / banking) appreciate the shorter hours and holidays you get with teaching and really don’t moan the way the ones who have only ever taught do.

This. They make themselves look silly.

Interesting. I was in accountancy first. I have several friends who were in industry first. They all say teaching is harder. See, that’s the problem with anecdata. Someone else will have something to contradict you.