To feel intimidated by conspiracy theorists

[famousforwrongreason]

I have a lot of friends who seem to have moved into plandemic territory, masks are evil etc. Some people are who I'd least expect to have these beliefs, rational people.
They have linked covid to 5g and are now crusading for the save our children campaign saying anyone who doesn't join them is complicit in child abuse and people trafficking.
They literally say this.
this is not even one group of friends, but disparate unconnected from each other.
I feel like they're dropping like flies.
I have every reason to believe that these campaigns have right wing connections, many of them are using American spelling for things which are also being shared by qanon people and there is some crossover.
I am not keen on our government, not overly happy with masks but also not overly bothered, I'll do what I can to help get things back to normal, maybe I'm being naive there
I just want to rant really, I keep inadvertently insulting people when I bring it up irl and each time a new person tells me their thoughts on it all I just become more alarmed!
I would also do anything I can to protect children, I just feel that linking up with these militant groups is not the only way.

Plus the friends who are heavily involved seem to have become friends with some really heavy and sinister Tommy robinson types.
I feel worried about the mass hysteria, but also sad I'm losing friends and worried about where this will end.
Is anyone experiencing this?
Aibu to feel this is slightly sinister?

Lots of consipracy theories have an element of truth to them. The more people deny them the more people question what they have been told when this element of truth is exposed. For example, the whole international paedophile network, made up of a lot of rich and famous people that had been dismissed as a big right-wing conspiracy seems to have a lot of truth to it

Evidence?

People see things like this and then go on to question other things. Also, if people are always being told that what they see with their own eyes and experience on a regular basis is hysteria or delusion, they are going to start questioning what the mainstream media is saying and why they are being told their experience has no value

You really think this is what motivates them? Evidence for this?

For example, the whole international paedophile network, made up of a lot of rich and famous people that had been dismissed as a big right-wing conspiracy seems to have a lot of truth to it

The pizza and Wayfair things? There's no truth to those. There is truth to wealthy and well connected people having the resources and links to get away with abuses, but nothing like the theories as posted.

That's a very interesting thought. Although IME there are a lot of Christians who subscribe to conspiracy theories, sadly, especially in the US. (A lot of them are also Trump supporters.)

maybe that group Is worthy of study in its own right as believing anything they’re told lol.

Conspiracy theories are not only the preserve of American Christians. Many Muslim and Arab countries believe that Jews control the world, they use the blood of children in their breads etc. This belief is endemic in many countries and many repeat these things in mainstream school texts books. Maybe a study should be done into belief in anti-Semitic conpiracy theories in Muslim countries too?

@cosmicdoughnut, I find Brave New World even scarier and more prophetic of our times!

Re the anti semetic conspiracy theories I would love to see much more education on how Jews have been treated throughout history (it’s not just a flash in the pan during the second world war). Yet anti-semitism is constantly brushed under the carpet, jews are blamed for all evil. The anti semetism has gone beyond conspiracy theories into widely accepted “fact” that few people question, and when they do its shot down in flames. The Israel question is viewed as valid political debate (so long as you decide you hate Israel) rather than a question of providing a safe haven for a people persecuted over millennia.

I still stand by my preference to look into the logical reasons and any evidence behind the origins of surprising things I see and hear and then come to my own conclusions.

Except that isn't what you're doing (or you're certainly not doing a good job of it). There is zero evidence (that I can find) to support Deagal's incredibly outlandish claims and a whole load of evidence to the contrary. It did not take long to research either. You seen to basically be willing to consider (and spread) any ridiculous crap you hear, from anonymous sources, regardless of whether it has any real evidentiary basis.

I never said I was hung up on the Deagel website being fact and urging everybody to 'wake up' to me 'knowing' that is fact; nor did I say that that was the only single strange thing out there that I like to look into and make up my own mind. Declaring a well-presented website that you come across as crap, without even taking a cursory look into it, sounds like quite a closed-mind approach to me. I accept that you did look into this particular query yourself and I thank you for sharing your own findings.

Unfortunately, it isn't quite so simple to be able to say that the sources in List A are acceptable/believable/reasonable and any others go into List B, which is cursorily ridiculed and we get angry at its very existence. If so, what would you put on List A? As elected leader of the world's most powerful and influential country, Donald Trump is about as mainstream as they get. Do you accept what he says by default? I certainly don't.

Not a good analogy, because that's not how conspiracy theorists "work". They don't set up to predict the future, they distort the past.

Really? So all the claims that some have made about 5G, depopulation and the forced cashless society are based on events that have already happened long ago?

I'd recommend the film below for a little insight into there thinking.

You make it sound like every single person who doesn't follow the standard government/BBC/expert-prescribed way of thinking without a moment's thought for themselves is exactly the same.

Everybody who questions whether Jeffrey Epstein's death was an unassisted suicide, those who question Ghislaine Maxwell and a certain Prince's involvement, people who wonder if there was more to David Kelly and Robin Cook's deaths than we're assured has been 'proven' - they're all exactly the same as the sort who are convinced that the Queen is an actual lizard who eats babies as she rules over a huge proportion of a flat earth? Really?

The big, powerful tobacco industry protested for a very long time that their products were categorically not dangerous and brought out plenty of experts on their payroll to ridicule, smear and silence those who expressed concerns. Similar with Donald Rumsfeld and his Aspartame empire, but that one is still currently slapped down as the frothings of 'crazy hippy scientists' who are 'wrong' to disagree with the experts and not to just accept what they are told.

Jimmy Savile was very well-known-about within the BBC. The head of Children In Need vowed that he would never allow Savile to take any part in it (it sounds like he was keen to do so). Terry Wogan acknowledged that he needed to be exposed and hoped he would eventually. Even Esther Rantzen was supposedly quite aware of the reports/rumours about him. But none of them (or countless others) actually did blow the whistle on him during his lifetime. Wogan was qupoted as saying that, as a presenter and not a journalist, it wasn't his job. Was this a conspiracy that they all felt unable to expose, for fear of their jobs and lives, or were they part of the conspiracy? Ditto Charles and Diana, who considered him a close friend and adviser, and Margaret Thatcher, who welcomed him into her home to spend Christmas Day or a decade. Who knows? Either way, if it had been left to the BBC, everybody in the country who hadn't been one of his victims would still be thinking that he was nothing more than a slightly eccentric DJ who did a tremendous amount of good for charity.

David Icke turning up at the demo obviously didn't help.

He didn't just 'turn up' he was one of the listed speakers.

It's interesting that you say you have been told you are living in fear when arguably a lot of conspiracy theory could conceivably be linked to fear via paranoia as well. So I think this could be handed back to them OP if you are accused of this.

fact mouth-frothing, rage-filled lunatics.

Based on this comment I don't think they've lost much from no longer having you as a friend

@dayslikethese1 its a cover up, to take our minds off what the pedophiles are doing...... Duh 😑

Not friends, but work colleagues. It’s been a surprise because they were the last people I’d have expected to come out with conspiracy theories. I ignore, because arguing with them is a waste of valuable energy.

I definitely think that because of Trump (who takes advice from very dodgy people, i.e. a doctor who says endometriosis is caused by having sex with demons, f.f.s) people who believe wacky things feel more entitled do air their views and not expect to get laughed at.

That said, I think some conspiracy theories (like those surrounding President Kennedy’s assassination) gain traction because governments are not transparent and conspiracy theories fill the gaps (or do for some people) left by all the unanswered questions.

Yes, I have a few. I don’t find it intimidating but I find it really strange how people get swept up in it.

That said, I think there’s another extreme, which is accepting without question whatever the government and their scientists tell us and ‘cancelling’ anyone who dares to question it. We should still maintain a healthy scepticism about the government’s narrative - that’s not being a conspiracy theorist.

And I do think each extreme fuels the other.

Based on this comment I don't think they've lost much from no longer having you as a friend.

Oh, sorry, did I describe you? Bit too close to the bone, was it?

I think the issue is, most people can see there is somthing not right about this pandemic. The MSM will not address the discrepancies. So people are looking elsewhere for answers.

Ah, apparently I did! Rave on.

@cbt944

Yes because what I said was just full of froth and sooo rage filled.

Based on your second comment, I stand by what I said. You've done your mates a favour.

That said, I think there’s another extreme, which is accepting without question whatever the government and their scientists tell us and ‘cancelling’ anyone who dares to question it. We should still maintain a healthy scepticism about the government’s narrative - that’s not being a conspiracy theorist.

I know it's just semantics, but how can suspecting that governments might be making plans and deliberately not telling the ordinary people the truth for whatever ends suit them not be being a conspiracy theorist? The problem is that the phrase itself is neutral, but it's been hijacked as a lazy short-cut to spit out at somebody to slur them as severely lacking in intelligence. A person might be perceived to be a crazy conspiracy theorist and/or believe in ludicrous conspiracy theories, but you can't just use the neutral term without qualifying it and expecting it to mean what ymany seem to think it does.

It's a bit like the word 'fundamentalist', especially when prefixed by 'religious'. There are many millions of people around the world who are very fundamental in their beliefs - be they religious, ethical (e.g. veganism) or other, but who are peacefully respectful of others who don't share those beliefs. If you mean violent and/or terrorist, just say it.

Some people will even sneer dismissively and say "Oh, it's something you read/saw on the internet, is it?!" as if there couldn't possibly be anything true or from respected, credible sources on the major means of communicating information. By all means criticise/ridicule the content or author that may be objectionable, but making it sound like the neutral medium for communicating it (and everything else in the modern world) is to blame really does make you sound quite silly.

And I do think each extreme fuels the other.

Very wise words - I completely agree.

More worrying is what the government or PM or president/presidential hopefuls want to slip in whilst using fear and division as a distraction. Whichever side you look at it, we're not in a great position atm.

Yes because what I said was just full of froth and sooo rage filled.

Not particularly, I only skimmed it. But all you had to do was say was 'MSM' and I had you pegged as one of the looneys.

Once again, sorry what I wrote about my acquaintances and colleagues touched a nerve with you. You've taken it far more seriously than I ever intended. The fact that you felt the need to fling dung back at me says a lot about the amount of froth and rage you carry with you, however.

I've developed a new rule around social media - anyone calling masks 'muzzles', sharing plandemic stuff or saying they want to attend the protests to remove all of the rules so the virus can take its natural course get removed from my social media and my mental 'people I have coffee with' list.

I'm up to 3 at the moment. 2 didn't bother me but I was disappointed re: the third.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll Very well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[quote Roguesausage]My friend is a conspiracy theorist. He believes there is a New world order consisting of unelected millionaires taking over the world and all sorts of other stuff. He can get frustrated and rude when you won't engage. I generally avoid these subjects.

But, i was very worried to see that The World Economic Forum has launched The Big Reset. The plan is to reset society in every conceivable way. They are indeed unelected billionaires and this plan has been in the pipeline for quite some time. Prince Charles worryingly refers to the pandemic as a "Golden opportunity".

I can't help but be worried about this.

www.weforum.org/great-reset/[/quote]

The WEF is just a big talking shop. It's the rich person's equivalent of those chats down the pub where you 'put the world to rights' and then go home and forget all about it. Nothing actually happens.

On a more light hearted note, my asda delivery man is the only one I've come across irl. He was delivering because I was shielding incidentally.

He was telling me how it's all made up etc., and I didn't respond, just carried on packing stuff. He finished by saying the flu jab kills people, because a woman he delivers to had 3 friends die in the 3 months following their flu jab. On questioning her age, she's 88.

I've done some research into the vaccine thing, Bill Gates and WHO. Lots of the arguments I've come across, are purely based on one sentence taken from a speech...a bit like saying I said the flu jab kills people I suppose. No point in arguing with people that don't look any further than that. Ultimately it's their choice. I thought at first I'd try and engage, and find out what they were thinking and why, and go and research it. That didn't happen once. Now I block without a second thought.

Some, maybe 1% of the conspiracy theories will be true. Unfortunately it's not always easy to discern which ones make up this 1% from all the shit out there.

Example: smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes were prescribed by doctors for breathing difficulties. King George VI was prescribed cigarettes! Smoking a cigarette was not considered harmful at all. Now we know that smoking cigarettes for 40 years is very harmful indeed, but at the time this was considered scaremongering.

What do I think may be in that 1% which turns out right?
If I had to guess, I'd go for artificial sweeteners. Who knows what the effect will be in 40 years?

If I had to guess, I'd go for artificial sweeteners. Who knows what the effect will be in 40 years?

I completely agree with you on that one. Donald Rumsfeld has made an absolute fortune by promoting/selling Aspartame and reports suggest that dissenting voices have been 'encouraged' not to take it any further. Same with chemicals in food and plastics that can allegedly interfere with children's sex organs as they grow and develop. plus the already-out-in-the-open-but-don't-anybody-dare-criticise-it drugs that are given to children to suppress their pubertal development.

There's also the suggestion of 'controlled opposition', which is the idea that powerful people who are implicated in conspiracies which are in danger of being discovered employ people (even go as far as setting up their own undercover organisations) to actually spill the beans on the 'true' theories.

However, they deliberately take it way too far and include outrageously ludicrous details to detract from the true part and deliberately set themselves up to be mocked and ridiculed as figures of fun.

For example, indepeendent 'researcher' Luna Tick spreads the rumours about Billy O'Naire having been part of a huge international money-laundering operation. What's more, she has proof that he was responsible for rigging the last presidential election to ensure the winner that he knew would act in his best interests - and is actually on his payroll.

But it goes much, much deeper than that, as he's known for a fact to be developing a secret space programme and has already set up a base on Jupiter. He's discovered human life there and has been enslaving the top Jupiterian scientists, by threatening to eat their babies, and forcing them to develop the most powerful rocket fuel ever, harnessing the Sun's rays and conspiring to fire Jupiter at the Earth in the confidence that they can destroy all of civilisation except for the people of Aberystwyth, where he, his family and friends live, and over which he has constructed a lead isolation space-dome capable of withstanding the blast whilst the rest of the Earthlings all perish, leaving the entire Earth and all of its resources for the sole use of his own townsfolk.

Sounds absolutely beyond insane, doesn't it? Nobody with 1% of a brain would ever listen to crazy Luna and her wild fantasies about all of this space nonsense. What about the money-laundering and election rigging allegations? Did you say that Luna claimed that?! Well, she's the one who assures us that Billy has conquered Jupiter and eats babies!!!!! So if she says it, then you can be certain that it's all a complete pack of fanciful lies, every single word....

Hmm. Works as a theory. Presumably just before the money laundering is about to hit the headlines i a reputable source, so it'salready been dismissed as rubbish? That's a fairly good plan considering the amount of research people tend not to do.

So for example, if I was about to be outed for tax evasion, I'd hire someone to put that out there along with the fact that I have orgies on the 3rd Saturday of every month, in my street-facing front-garden opposite two pubs, while playing aida full blast?

I 'like' it. It's a smart ploy.

There are some on here who believe that we should just "trust the science."

OK. Let's give the greatest scientific minds of our generation complete control over everything. How long will society last with these geniuses in charge?

I'm not sure how to calculate it. What exactly is the square root of fuck all?