To take toddler to doctors for night terrors

[Namechangedotcom]

I’m on my last nerve before I have a breakdown over this I think. My little girl is 3 in November, for months and months she’s been hard work at bed time and once she’s asleep she will always wake up around 3am crying and wanting to come into my bed. Since Monday I’ve had a really good routine for her sleeping 7.30-.7.30 (aside from the waking up at 3/4am, once she’s in my bed she’ll go straight back to sleep and stay asleep). The last few days however she’s been absolutely terrified of her own bedroom and will not go to bed in there under any circumstances. This has resulted in her staying awake until 9pm even though she’s been up since 7am with no naps. Eventually she crashes on the sofa and I’ll put her to bed asleep but she wakes up within a few hours screaming saying she’s scared. She’s just got up again crying and refusing to go into her room. I don’t even know what to do anymore, my husband and I are barely sleeping because of this

I have dozed off for about 45 minutes but then she came into my bedroom having pooed herself oh well, I’m just happy that she’s not scared anymore even if I have had no sleep. Newborn will be up for a feed in about half hour so I may as well just get up

We do talk about the monsters every night and she agrees with me that monsters don’t come in her house and she confidently says “no monsters go away from my bedroom” but she still wakes up scared. I may see if she could stay at my mums house tomorrow night to give us both a break, she absolutely loves it there. Still wakes up but generally sleeps quite well and doesn’t seem so terrified there.

DD1 is 3, and we had a baby in lockdown too, DD2 is now 4 months old.
We have exactly this situation with DD1. She goes to sleep in her own room, which can sometimes be a battle. Then at some point in the night, she will either shout for me, or come running through. I give her a cuddle and she sleeps with me for the rest of the night, as it means we all get some sleep.
Her source of fear is bugs (pretend bugs). She will even say there's a pretend scary butterfly in her room, so she knows it's not real, but still scares her.
We have a bug catcher that we use before bed, to catch the 'tend bugs, and we have a chat about all the nice things we've done in the day, just before she goes to sleep.
It's so hard, let's hope they grow out of it.

My three nearly 4 year old wakes continuously during the night. Not through terrors or nightmares she just wants to be in my bed (which can't happen due to medical reasons) I just wanted to say though that the sleep deprivation for you is a real worry. Could her dad sleep in your daughters room until she builds up courage again and you focus on the new born. If your mom could help once or twice a week if would make a massive difference. It sounds like she's a lot on with being back in Montessori and a new sibling and coming out of lockdown. She may just need some extra reassurance from you guys.

Poor lamb, poor you as well. Honestly, just do whatever you need to op. I'd probably just let her sleep in your bed if that is what helps. Encourage her to start the night in her own bed but just reassure her that if she gets scared, you're always there and won't turn her away. A few weeks of that and she may regain some confidence/faith in the whole situation, become more secure that new baby hasn't completely usurped her, and hopefully go back to her own bed.

I personally don't see the point of trying to get them to sleep alone if they're scared.

My own ds night terrors seem to improve if I make sure to tell him each night that I will take care of him if he sleepwalks, that I'll be there and make sure he is safe, that I always love to see him even in the middle of the night (!!).

It is awful op, I know you're exhausted. I sympathize hugely.

My personal experience has taught me that allowing the fears to happen and to be the secure comforting presence (not over discussing it with them, not getting worked up, just plodding through the night dramas at their side) seems to neutralize the issues quicker than trying to strategise/explain etc.

Regardless, my heart goes out to you, its really hard.

At that age one of my daughters started with regular blood-curdling screams and incoherent talk of “black bears”, adamant they were in her room. It didn’t matter how much I tried with dream catchers and monster spray as to her it wasn’t an imaginary monster and it WAS in her room. I finally realised that she had semi-woken once and in the darkness felt her teddy bear and it had turned in her mind to a “black” bear that she couldn’t see but could definitely feel. We laugh about it now she’s a teen. Uncertainties re bedroom are a perfectly normal developmental stage. My son was terrified of Macca Pacca at night, though previously he’d loved In The Night Garden! Oh and once it was a daddy long leg that caused one of them to start. Always an explanation.

There really isn't anything your GP can do for this. You won't get sleeping tablets or supplements as a PP suggested. This is a parenting issue, not a medical issue. You're likely to get signposted to your Health Visitor.

My eldest is prone to fear but also proper night terrors and sleep walking although fortunately she hasn’t done the latter for a while. Tiredness, Illness or general anxiety about change have been triggers so unfortunately you can get into a bit of a cycle if she isn’t sleeping well: The night before school starting, mine had a screaming fit at 2am because she was scared of some specks on her carpet. Totally brought about my school nervousness and not the carpet.

The difference with the fear and night terrors for us has been that with the terrors she’s in a trance like state. We learnt (the hard way) that there was no point trying to reason as some of the time she didn’t have a clue who we were. Anytime she’s been woken from sleepwalking, it totally freaks her out. We didn’t even realise she was sleepwalking the first few times.

Does your daughter sleep with a nightlight? Mine has for a while and it helps. I’d really recommend the smart lightbulbs so you can control it from your phone.

My LO of a similar age is going through the exact same stage. Previously a really good sleeper but all of a sudden hates bedtime.

I was reading this to get some tips but I personally would veer away from 'monster spray'. I feel this just reinforces their fear that monsters exist.

I definitely wouldn't be giving her a tablet to use in the middle of the night. And why on earth was she staying up till 11pm every night during lockdown?? She's 2!!

She just watches YouTube videos of other kids playing with toys, baby shark, cloud babies etc. I haven’t seen anything scary really

My ds did have night terrors (absolutely horrifying for us but he had zero recollection in the morning) but grew out of them.

He then progressed onto recurring nightmares that woke him frequently up to about 7 years old. We eventually discovered that the main 'baddie' in his recurring nightmares was one of the characters from the Tweenies - very innocent in the daytime on his dvd/playset but terrifying at night. Very quickly remedied by discretely hiding the dvd and toy set.

I agree with PP - time to remove/check the settings on the tablet. You really have no idea what a toddler is watching on there (unsupervised toddler with an ipad/tablet ) never mind the stuff that comes on between the YouTube clips.

What would your go do?

@Helbelle17 me and you are pretty much exactly the same then, my new baby is 3 months. DD also goes to bed in her own room and comes running in to me (about 3am) and sleeps in my bed for the rest of the night so we can get some sleep. It’s just the last few nights she’s been too scared to go in her room in the first place and has been waking up more frequently. I will try to “catch the monsters” tonight

She got up at 8.30 this morning and has been happily playing since, no mention of being scared or monsters. I’m going to take the tablet today and see if she’s any better tonight as honestly I feel that she’s a lot easier to handle the longer she has been without it. I’m also going to order one of those projector night lights off amazon and see if that helps

If you 'catch the monsters' you fuel her belief they're real, PPs bad dream catcher/spray surely would be less problematic. Also a couple of hours a day on a tablet probably isn't helpful, my cousin's son has just been to the optician and they've been told no more than an hour a day maximum of screen time and preferably on a screen away from his face eg a TV rather than a tablet or phone, he's nearly six.

Is there a reason she's been up to 11 until recently? Could there be something going on in real life that's manifesting itself in the dark?

I'd def keep an eye on what she's watching on the telly etc, does she spend any time with her Dad where she might have seen something scarier on telly? a night at nanny's also sounds like a good idea for you both. It's hard enough doing it in your own let alone on no sleep

Hello again op
@Helbelle17
That too sounds like hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucinations.
Insects, particular spiders, are very common, including with me (I am not even scared of spiders).
When I was a young child it appeared that my toys and ornaments were coming to life.
Sometimes I will wake in the night and my pillow or other bedroom object will appear to be a skull or similar.
The images are incredibly vivid and life-like. After a few seconds the vision disappears, but even now, as an adult who understands the phenomenon, it is quite disconcerting.

Can I just ask why do you think it's important that kids have to sleep alone? If you think about it, it doesn't make sense either from a psychological or sociological sense.
[caveat: whatever works for your family, etc...]

Kids this small are gathering/consuming tons of information throughout the day* and they need to process it during sleep. They rely on their parents in every situation in the day, why would you expect them to be able to cope with random popping up thoughts in a dark place totally alone? Just the sound of mum/dad breathing is something that can anchor a child in the fes seconds of awakening. This tether will allow his/her brain to deal with whatever though popped in more effectively.

Until quite recently it was not customary for children to be alone. Even rich people's kids who had their own room in the castle had maids, others to tend to them. So they weren't really alone. Western civilization's obsession with kids in their own room -imho- stems mostly from parents wanting alone time. Which is reasonable and understandable.
But on a more practical level it is much easier to co-sleep in some way or form that is acceptable to the family and as soon as the child matures enough to handle being a totally separate entity who can deal with their own emotions, thoughts, they will automatically separate.

*I don't think youtube or any screen is helping in general for this age group. Just because an app is educational it doesn't make it right.
Watching other kids playing with toys (youtube) is seriously limiting creativity and potentially stunning brain growth. Before someone flames me: no, these kids won't be zombies. There has to be very complex longitudinal research design to measure/see the effects of various screens on different cohorts. There are some ongoing, but it's too early to draw conclusions.
total sidenote
on the watching others play. It's interesting how bigger kids use this. Some will watch millions of videos and copy the best strategy. some will watch and be still shit at the game. some will use it as training and pick apart strategy of others to create their own unique style and hone it until it's a winning style. Potentially utilizing the latter on in education would be a great thing.

@Namechangedotcom

I started having night terrors when I was 13/14. I'd randomly wake up screaming but then I'd get so upset and worked up because I didn't know why but my heart would race because I was petrified.

I'm mid 20s now and it still happens occasionally but not as much. I usually wake up screaming because I can see tarantulas and snakes very vividly in my bedroom.

I've found it helps to have a warm milky drink before bed and to keep the landing light on. I notice that when the bedroom is pitch black, I'm in a panic even more because it takes me ages to focus and realise its not real. If I have the light on, I instantly know that its not real and takes me less time to 'wake up'.

I wouldn't make a big deal of it and maybe turn it into a bit of a joke. If you make a big deal of it, your daughter will become afraid of sleep etc. I found joking about it made it less to worry about if that makes sense 😊

@Snackasaurus
Again, they are hypnopompic hallucinations.
I also have auditory hallucinations when I'm falling asleep.

There's a lot going on in your house if you also have a new born.Its hardly surprising that she's unsettled. She's not having night terrors and you need to be clear on that as they're quite different.
Children used to grow up with nursery rhymes and tales around monsters etc and I'm convinced it played a part in their emotional growth.I know you probably have little time but I'm saddened by the idea of her sitting looking at her tablet. The book I've attached is one of many based around monsters and some book time each day would be great.

DS suffered from this when he was about the same age. It seemed to have been triggered by a bedtime story.
We bought him a toy plastic sword on a day out to a castle and that night when the horrors began i told him to keep the sword under his pillow so that he could kill the monsters and scary things. It seemed to do the trick. Just knowing that he had a solution to hand eased his anxiety.

Vanilla works better than lavendar ime. Also, give her a teddy.

[quote ElizabethMainwaring]@Snackasaurus
Again, they are hypnopompic hallucinations.
I also have auditory hallucinations when I'm falling asleep.[/quote]
Thanks for that 😊 but when I was 13/14, they were definitely night terrors as confirmed by the doctor.

If you to your gp, they will just tell you that toddlers being afraid of monsters in the dark and crying in the night are entirely normal. And even more so in kids who have recently experienced big changes. Like a four hour difference in bed time (I don’t really understand why your 2yo was up until 11? Routines are pretty important) and a new sibling.
It’s pretty normal developmental stage at this age as their imagination kicks in.
My 2yo DID have night terrors. This isn’t night terrors. Nor is it paranormal activity lol.

That said, if you are up all night with a newborn, get your partner to deal with the toddler. In her own room.