To think that universal credit wrongly penalises...

[User78890]

Posted a while ago about universal credit and savings... I can't get my head around it.

The rules are that above 6k you get deductions to your claim. The more you save, the more that gets deducted. 16k or above means that you cannot claim.

I am (hopefully) going to be training for a profession for a few years which will be a low wage. I'll have to rely on universal credit as my wage wouldn't cover childcare costs on top of everything else. But where does this leave those who want to save for a mortgage?

Surely anyone who saves will be in a constant cycle as you will then need to use your savings to live on, claim again, and repeat.

Before anyone jumps on me, I know benefits are for those who need it, and if you have savings, yes, you are obviously not in the priority of those who need it. But, those who spunk their money or use it wrongly are unaffected. Those who are trying to better their situation and are sensible, however, are in a constant trap. We are both equally entitled to the same financial help, but one is penalised and the other isn't.

So surely you would be best of spending your money, and you will never get a mortgage (unless obviously you was to secure a higher paid job)...

You know what OP, you should go and give talks to high school kids and explain to them that having kids before graduating and on the path to a career will most likely set you back potentially for your whole life.

There lies the issue. Too many kids act careless, fall pregnant and decide it will be fun to have a kid. Then reality hits and they feel that society owe them something.

It doesn't. If you have a child before a realistic mean to earn a reasonable income or married in a secure relationship (and even then it's debatable), you accept that the path is going to be a lot harder.

Remember though that you will be working until your late 60s at best so you still have time to have kids, study, get on the ladder and buy a property in your 40s. It just makes you more vulnerable at an age where employment is more at risk due to potential ill health and struggles to get another job if made redundant.

@SchrodingersImmigrant but not everyone will be financially sound. Some people will be working in low paid jobs their entire lives. Should they never have children?

I probably wouldn't have put it like penguinice did, but I'm afraid this 'wanting tax-payers money in benefits so u haven’t got to spend your own' does sum it up a little tbh. And your 'two friends' scenario gives the state a role of overseeing what people do with their money which it can't and doesn't have, and quite right too - it can and should only go on how much money/savings people actually have. If you have savings above a certain level, you are expected to help yourself. Again, quite right too. The sooner the UK as a society gets away from the fetishisation of house-owning, the better.

Disgusting attitude from some people on here essentially saying that people on low incomes should never have children.

@dontdisturbmenow oh give over. What kind of fantasy world are you living in.

So all PP's who are on a low wage because they are unable to work any more hours, should not have had kids. Right 🧐

UC is a survival benefit. It's to ensure people have enough to live & a roof over their head.

You shouldn't be planning a career based on being able to manage on a low wage because it will be topped up by UC. Yes some people have no choice as they lack skills and qualifications but choosing to train for several years to earn piss poor money is madness.

Do a bit more research and go for something with better prospects.

Also get some realistic expectations. If the career path leads to better earnings later on then like most people you just have to wait rather than expecting to be able to save for a mortgage immediately on starting work.

It's always a good idea to save - to have a safety net.

Also on the kind of income that makes you eligible for UC you will need years to save more than 6k!

And what you have realised is that doing things out of the traditional order. Career, house, then children in a two parent set up is much much harder to do.

But you cannot expect tax payer subsidies to help you achieve buying a house- which is what it would be as only by having subsidy of childcare can you save.

You are just going to have to wait until you are earning more and don’t have childcare costs until you can save for a house. That should only be five years.

No one starting out as a new graduate at the traditional time of early twenties would expect to be in a position to buy a property within five years. So you are in the same position as your peers

I don't think it's about not having children - It is a point about screwed up priorities.

Buy a safe and keep savings in it.

@Waxonwaxoff0 100 exactly!! If you are unable to work, if you are raped, you should be entitled to have children without judgement.

Who is meant to do all the low paid essential jobs?? Carers are far too underpaid but we need them. They should be allowed to have children should they decide.

@Lilmisskittykat

I don't think it's about not having children - It is a point about screwed up priorities.

Not everyone's priorities will be aligned to yours. 🧐

@Waxonwaxoff0

Disgusting attitude from some people on here essentially saying that people on low incomes should never have children.

Oh give over. If you are on low income obviously you can have kids, but you won't probably be buying a house.

However, if you look at what I was replying to you will see OP talked about graduate jobs. These are not the ones who will always stay on low wage, are they.

Shit happens in life. The best laid plans and all that. I didn't plan to get divorced but here I am. You can't always "plan" a traditional life of going to university, getting married, buying a house, then having children. Life does not always work that way.

If you have savings, you need to be living off them, not claiming benefits. Benefits are for those who are disabled, sick or who just can't get by for whatever reason, they are also a stop-gap not a lifestyle choice.

If you have enough to be saving to buy a house, you have enough to live on. When you have so little in your bank account that you're living on overdraft and can barely make ends meet, you need the state to help you get by....

Op even your scenario annoys me as I can not afford to live in a desirable area and that is with me and by oh both working full time! You don’t seem to realise that it is not just people on UC that struggle and can’t afford a house deposit.

Don’t get me wrong I fully believe there needs to be a better benefits system and I do not agree that only the rich should be able to afford to have kids. But I can not agree with people with savings over 16k being entitled to benefits when it is paid for in taxes by people with a lot less than that.

This specific post was about saving for a house while training for a graduate job.

The entire point of UC is that it does take into account that people have children and there are top ups accordingly.

What there isn’t are tops up so substantial that a individual can use them to save to buy a house

Basically the whole system is designed to ensure the poor can’t better themselves. The rich have always made sure the wealth stays with them.

All of this
..
“It's because UC isn't meant to support the betterment of a lifestyle. It's survival money when you can't afford to live.”

Otherwise benefit would be being paid to people who had literally thousands in the bank.

I don't understand why "the whole system is designed to ensure the poor can’t better themselves.".
There are thousands of ways to better yourself in any stage of life and on any income.

@WanderingMilly

If you have savings, you need to be living off them, not claiming benefits. Benefits are for those who are disabled, sick or who just can't get by for whatever reason, they are also a stop-gap not a lifestyle choice.

If you have enough to be saving to buy a house, you have enough to live on. When you have so little in your bank account that you're living on overdraft and can barely make ends meet, you need the state to help you get by....

This comment is really nasty.

Some would argue and judge you why have you got yourself into your over draft? Perhaps you spend what another would save

Benefits are NOT only for what you have stated in real life they are to facilitate the low wages and high living costs. Since it seems some people have a bee in their bonnet about others wanting study. It then means you will probably be doing low paid jobs for the rest of your life! Also needing UC/TC along side that too.

Take your pick

@Waxonwaxoff0

Shit happens in life. The best laid plans and all that. I didn't plan to get divorced but here I am. You can't always "plan" a traditional life of going to university, getting married, buying a house, then having children. Life does not always work that way.

I absolutely agree with everything you have wrote here.

Even if I was to get £200 universal credit towards childcare fees, it would be MY wage going towards a mortage, not universal credit.

Where as if you weren't saving for a mortgage you'd be paying your own childcare.

You DID say were retraining in your first post ' hopefully training '

@dontdisturbmenow

You know what OP, you should go and give talks to high school kids and explain to them that having kids before graduating and on the path to a career will most likely set you back potentially for your whole life.

There lies the issue. Too many kids act careless, fall pregnant and decide it will be fun to have a kid. Then reality hits and they feel that society owe them something.

It doesn't. If you have a child before a realistic mean to earn a reasonable income or married in a secure relationship (and even then it's debatable), you accept that the path is going to be a lot harder.

Remember though that you will be working until your late 60s at best so you still have time to have kids, study, get on the ladder and buy a property in your 40s. It just makes you more vulnerable at an age where employment is more at risk due to potential ill health and struggles to get another job if made redundant.

You should be ashamed!!!

Shocked you have wrote this. Your clearly living in MN land. Not all graduate jobs are fantastically paid and some people don’t end up in the job role they even studied.
Furthermore some people earn more than some people who don’t hold a degree.

How dare you look upon others and start giving “life orders” or what order OP should do things in.

You don’t know what my knock you off your feet tomorrow so maybe you should humble yourself

Basically the whole system is designed to ensure the poor can’t better themselves. The rich have always made sure the wealth stays with them.

Agree with this. And here we are arguing while they carry on hiding their money offshore etc..

Even if I was to get £200 universal credit towards childcare fees, it would be MY wage going towards a mortage, not universal credit.

Really? Come on now OP.