Eating standing up at school???

[JCWildWest]

Just wondering if this was the case for anyone else’s kids since returning school.

Secondary school, medium sized. Phased lunchtimes as expected, eating in the school hall but no seating of tables provided, so they stand and eat their lunch.

This just seems bizarre to me. I get that it’s because they don’t want to have to disinfect the tables and chairs but these are kids not cattle. And it’s their break, I think it’s mean not to allow them to sit and eat their dinner? I just can’t get my head round it.

Anyone else experiencing this?

What accommodation is there for disabled pupils?

What accommodation is there for disabled pupils?

That, I imagine, would depend on the disability. “Disabled pupils” are not a homogeneous group.

^ Obviously, but most posters are acting like disability doesn’t exist.

Obviously, but most posters are acting like disability doesn’t exist

Ok, but asking “what provision is made for disabled pupils” is still treating disabled pupils like a homogenous mass. 🤷🏻‍♀️

One comment stood out to me in the OPs first post-that the food was tasting of hand sanitizer. Do schools in the UK not insist on hand washing before eating, then? I’m a primary school teacher in Ireland and the recommendation is that the children wash hands before eating, using the toilet or if hands are visibly dirty, and hand sanitizer is used every other time. (Our children eat sitting down, but can take something small out in their hand to the yard afterwards if they wish)

@Procrastination4 not all schools have sufficient sinks for a whole year group to wash their hands at once. I’d say the majority of secondaries don’t. To accommodate staggered lunches, the break is shorter. There simply wouldn’t be time for everyone to both wash their hands and eat their lunch.

Children do sit down to eat where I work and I'm glad they do. Lunchtimes are pretty challenging though. Different schools have different circumstances.

We couldn't get a whole year group through the toilets and then through the lunch queue in 30 mins. In fact the geography of the building doesn't work that way. They have to use sanitiser which I agree is less than ideal.

There is always a walking stampede to avoid being at the back of the queue so before Covid I guess hardly any of them cleaned their hands at all before lunch.

DS's school offering usual canteen service, but the children sit on individual tables. Additionally, break time servery is on a rota - DS has access on Fridays! Private secondary.

Ok, but asking “what provision is made for disabled pupils” is still treating disabled pupils like a homogenous mass.

Are you disabled? Are you a disability rights activist?

It really, really isn’t and it’s offensive and bizarre that you’re giving disabled people crap for literally no reason. Go bully someone else.

Camping stool?

@rainwaterflow

^ Obviously, but most posters are acting like disability doesn’t exist.

I've not seen most players acting like it doesn't exist.

I've seen most posters just stating in the grand scheme of things its fine and pretty standard for many anyway.

Even me!!!

And I am the mum if a child who has a disability - and it's physical!!!

If it was all in hall and sit on floor they'd just get him a chair. Same was they did for while school assemblies.

It's often not such a big a deal as people make out and many will ready have reasonable adjustments in place and they just carry on.

rainwaterflow

I’m sorry - I didn’t mean to make you feel bullied.

The point I was making - badly perhaps - is that it can be unhelpful talking so generally. In the situation in the OP, different disabilities will need different provision. I know at my school, lunchtime arrangements at the moment have a different impact on various children with disabilities (or SEN) - so the work is around individuals rather than a group.

But as I said, I certainly didn’t intend to bully anyone!

Here we have staggered lunch times in the normal lunch room. That means some classes are having lunch at 10.30 in the morning. I think I’d prefer a standing option at regular lunch time.

@SmileEachDay

rainwaterflow

I’m sorry - I didn’t mean to make you feel bullied.

The point I was making - badly perhaps - is that it can be unhelpful talking so generally. In the situation in the OP, different disabilities will need different provision. I know at my school, lunchtime arrangements at the moment have a different impact on various children with disabilities (or SEN) - so the work is around individuals rather than a group.

But as I said, I certainly didn’t intend to bully anyone!

I don't think you bullied.

I agree with you!

In fact - my son ended up having a failed placement at a secondary school because they saw and described him as an ASC student rather an an individual with individual needs.

It’s pretty obvious when someone talks about “disabled people’s rights” or “disabled people’s needs” they are using it as shorthand for “disabled people who would be negatively impacted by X situation currently under discussion.” Obviously not ALL disabled people need the same accommodation or are affected in the same way.

God what a ludicrous over-reaction. It’s very obvious from the context that I was using “disabled people” as a very very commonly used shorthand for “disabled people who’s specific disability would be negatively impacted by being forced to eat standing up or who physically or mentally are not capable of eating standing up” - I’m really being given crap for using a common shorthand and not writing out reams and reams to be ultra-ultra-specific and ensure I’ve articulated every single possible nuance? Sorry for being too autistic to be able to use language in the way you dictate disabled people are allowed to refer to themselves. Guess you’d better call every single disabled organisation out there since literally all of them use “disabled people” as shorthand for “disabled people affected by the issues in the context being discussed.” Most people understand when a commonly used word is being used as shorthand and that I very very obviously did not mean all disabled people.

Do you go into threads about people offering seats to disabled people on the train and yell at them that not all disabled people need to sit and how dare they refer to disabled people as a single group?

And very telling that actual disabled people who speak about disabled rights are always, always attacked and have our words twisted, while those same posters turn a blind eye to people engaging in outright ableism and the many many posters being utterly dismissive of something able-normative, making sneery ableist comments suggesting that lazy kids are perfectly able to stand and eat (literally acting like disabled chi... sorry forget that expression is banned “children with a specific long teen physical or neurodiverse condition which negatively affects their ability to do the particular physical thing under discussion”

Anyone who isn’t personally disabled themselves needs to stfu and stop language policing actual disabled people.

Oh and I am discriminated against constantly because of society or specific organisations treating disability as a “one size fits all” solution, so don’t pull that crap.

The fact I use “disabled pupils” as shorthand for “disabled pupils negatively affected by the circumstances described in the particular thread in which we are posting right now” is not lumping all disabled people together.

@SmileEachDay

rainwaterflow

I’m sorry - I didn’t mean to make you feel bullied.

The point I was making - badly perhaps - is that it can be unhelpful talking so generally. In the situation in the OP, different disabilities will need different provision. I know at my school, lunchtime arrangements at the moment have a different impact on various children with disabilities (or SEN) - so the work is around individuals rather than a group.

But as I said, I certainly didn’t intend to bully anyone!

A good point and to add - they're hardly going to announce what provision they're making to all the parents, are they? It's a matter for those students and parents involved. Just as if someone used a wheelchair and needed to leave class 5 mins early to avoid the crush in the halls, they won't be proclaiming it to people who don't need to know.

And just because a school has a stand up eating arrangement it's odd to assume they don't have alternative arrangements for those who can't.

Schools make reasonable adjustments under EA. They just wouldn't write what every adjustment they made in their Covid description.

Like it says in sons college bluff about walking in left hand side in corridors and stairs.

The fact he has lift access I don't need college to write this in main bluff.

Same as it doesn't specifically state about the learning support access. Because the senco has contacted us and those it's appropriate for independently.

rainwaterflow

As I said, I’m sorry. I’m hyper aware of “disability” being dealt with as a one size fits all thing because of my job.

I wasn’t aware that you were disabled - the discrimination you face is utterly shit.

In my personal experience schools (and society in general) are really shit when it comes to invisible disabilities, chronic illness, and things like dyspraxia. Comparing it to a child who uses a wheelchair is not helpful - I’m not dismissing the barriers that wheelchair users face and several of my closest friends are wheelchair users, but it’s simply not the same.

Many children with invisible disabilities or chronic illness do not have statements and their schools are either not aware they are disabled or do not accept that they are disabled. Many children and adults with chronic illness spend years fighting for diagnosis. There are also students who don’t have a disability but who have other medical needs that might make standing difficult - I used to pass out whenever I got my period and that’s not uncommon. I hate to think of girls having to stand while dealing with cramps and heavy bleeding.

Plus you need to have involved parents fighting for your rights in order to access accommodation so children like me who were disabled but had abusive and neglectful parents are fucked.

A blanket policy that assumes everyone is able-bodied unless stated otherwise is ableist and actively harms people. The fact some disabled students have the resources to be able to request accommodation doesn’t protect all students who might find it difficult or painful to stand and eat.

Plus it’s about cultural attitudes and able-normativity. There are plenty of sneery comments along the lines of, “chuh! Lazy kids! Standing never did anyone any harm!” It’s the exact same mentality as the adults - complete strangers - who bullied and judged and harassed me throughout my entire childhood for being the ten year old sitting in a priority seat on the bus.

SmileEachDay