Do you think that we should get menstrual leave?

[Sarahpaula]

I have had such a terrible period this month. I was in so much pain. I feel so weak and tired. I know that many women feel like this. Do you think we should have an entitlement to menstrual leave from work?

Some countries already have menstrual leave in place. Mainly in Asia, from what I can see.

Here is an article:

in Taiwan, menstrual leave legislation was amended as recently as 2013. It guarantees women three days of menstrual leave a year on top of the 30 days half-paid sick leave given to all workers.
The extra three days came after a coalition of politicians claimed that incorporating menstrual leave into regular sick leave would be a violation of women’s rights. Indonesian women, too, are allowed two days a month menstrual leave and South Korean workers AND students are entitled to take days off when they’ve got their period as sick leave.

Op it’s bad healthcare. Women are routinely told there is nothing wrong with them, and have to see several different doctors or consultants before someone takes them seriously and give a diagnosis

About 15 percent of women have heavy painful or irregular periods. About ten percent have endo.

Debilitating pain and all the things you describe are not normal. Or the new normal. They are a sign something is wrong.

Okay @Bluntness100 thank you for the post.

@Spaghett

No, because any period bad enough to need you to take time off needs medical investigation.

As someone who had to spend 5 years trying to persuade their GP to actually refer them to get checked for endometriosis (spoiler alert, i do have it, and until it was treated it massively affected my attendance), I think our society normalises abnormal periods.

If it can't be contained for 3-4 hours by a normal menstrual pad, and/or the pain can't be eliminated with a couple of paracetamol, seek help, no matter how dismissive medical professionals are.

As a GP, I totally agree. The last thing we should be doing is reinforcing the idea that debilitating periods are something that women 'just have to put up with' by giving them all menstrual leave.

There are a small number of patients whose symptoms are difficult to control, because they get side-effects from the treatments that we would usually use, or because they don't want to try them (which is entirely their prerogative, of course). Those women should get sick leave when needed. But the standard expectation should be that women with pain/flooding are investigated and treated until their symptoms are controlled.

I agree with @Bluntness100 - thank you for the post

I can't believe the debate whether debilitating pain isn't normal is still going.

If we talked about any other part of the body we wouldn't even consider accepting that level of pain as normal.

@SchrodingersImmigrant but doctors tell us that it is normal, and I know so many women with very painful periods.

I think this would be another excuse not to employ women. Not all women have terrible periods, mine are long and am being investigated by a gp finally. Pain wise they are manageable, sometimes it can be worse. I take appropriate pain relief and suck it up. It wouldn't be condsidered a valid excuse not to go to work. Not all industries have the same policies with regards to sick leave. My first three days off are unpaid.

I would rather more gps take lengthy periods seriously and be more willing to refer women for investigations. It has taken 3 years after my ds was born to finally get the referrals I needed.

A period in itself isn't always a problem and you do women a disservice to say that they can't cope and must need time off.

Comparing the UK to countries in Asia is daft because the culture is different. In some Asian countries periods are still frowned upon and women are essentially seen as 'unclean during this time. Also not all Asian countries will have great provision in terms of access to public loos, great sanitation and easily accessible sanitary prosucts.

As for the poster who chose the mini pill to stop her periods, good for you. I am on the mini pill and it hasn't stopped mine, it doesn't stop or reduce every women's bleeding!

*products

@MangoFeverDream

How did management/HR talk about it? Was it in your contract?

They didn’t talk about it specifically, but it was in my contract because of the relevant labour laws.

Big issue in Asia is that women aren’t really taken seriously in the workplace, guarantee if you were to take it regularly, you’d be fired or at the very least, stuck in a low-level position.

The most we’d ever talk about it is just joking around about it when out drinking much too late, like, we should call in sick with our period leave!!

I can only speak for Japan, but here workers (make and female) are afraid of taking their annual leave, or even leaving the office once working hours are finished. Times are changing slowly, but the amount of unpaid overtime is still sky-high.

Many companies have a corporate culture that makes avoiding extra work pretty much impossible. I guess you could, at a pinch, but that pisses your chance of promotion up the wall.

I bet few Japanese women ever take or have taken menstrual leave.

I do still think that many women have natural, very painful periods.

A medical student on here said that periods should be mildy uncomfortable.

But ny own doctor who is a GP for more than thirty years, told me that periods can be naturally severely painful.

So I would believe her more. Added to that is the fact that I know many women with severely painful periods

What is severely painful then?

Because when reading the thread back it looks like the problem is that everyone has a different definition of painful?

Yes, periods are normally mildly uncomfortable. There can be some pain. Obviously. But having such pain that you cannot function - debilitating pain isn't ok

Yes, periods are normally mildly uncomfortable. There can be some pain. Obviously. But having such pain that you cannot function - debilitating pain isn't ok

Of course it's not ok- but that doesn't mean it's not 'normal'. Two women can have vastly different experiences of childbirth which are both normal- hell, I have had three vastly different experiences of childbirth and they were all normal, it's just that my second birth wasn't very painful at all and I would crawl through burning jobbies never to experience the pain of the third ever again.

I think women should be allowed sick leave with a docs note for this reason. I don't think it should be special leave because then employers will use it against us and once again we'll be seen as less valuable employees.

I've just had to take a day off work this week due to a migraine that I get when I have my period. Ive not had a day off sick in 18 months, so for me this would have been a benefit but not something I would use regularly

Yeah, let’s give employers yet another reason to ignore women in the workplace.

Oh sorry Amy, you didn’t get the promotion you so obviously deserve, we gave it to Dave because he’s never had to phone in sick because he’d been up seven times in the night to change his tampon and night-time pad combo!

The idea that if you're in pain you can just get a referral to a gynecologist and get the issue dealt with is laughable!

@Plussizejumpsuit

The idea that if you're in pain you can just get a referral to a gynecologist and get the issue dealt with is laughable!

It's not laughable in other countries... If you are experiencing abnormal pain or bleeding you go to gyno where you get tested and checked out🤷🏻 I can't understand why Brits just accept the system like this where someone can fob you off without even examining you...

I also grew up with annual check ups and annual smears from the time you start having sex...

But ny own doctor who is a GP for more than thirty years, told me that periods can be naturally severely painful

Was that when she was telling you nothing was wrong with you op and to fuck off out her surgery instead of taking the time to refer you for further tests to work out what the underlying issue was?

Asia's a big place and, tbf, you may be speaking from experience of a different country to me

I should clarify that my experience is in East Asia, tbh I really don’t consider that India is part of Asia, but I forget that British people do.

I should clarify that my experience is in East Asia, tbh I really don’t consider that India is part of Asia, but I forget that British people do

Eh? India is in South Asia. It’s not just British people consider it to be. It actually is.

@Bluntness100

I should clarify that my experience is in East Asia, tbh I really don’t consider that India is part of Asia, but I forget that British people do

Eh? India is in South Asia. It’s not just British people consider it to be. It actually is.

I assume this was meant as how it's called. It took me a while to get used to who is "asian" here. I was used to it being more East (oriental?). Indians were Indians etc.

I’m still lost.

India is in South Asia, and has been for a very long time. Factually. Globally. India is in South Asia.

Yes, periods are normally mildly uncomfortable. There can be some pain. Obviously. But having such pain that you cannot function - debilitating pain isn't ok

My health literacy is good. I have years of experience advocating for myself thanks to autoimmune conditions.

Despite this, I still never managed to have a laparoscopy on the NHS, which is the only way endometriosis can be diagnosed. I'm pretty sure I have it, I have diagnosed adenomyosis from two transvaginal scans, and ultrasounds of my ovaries showed cysts. But I have other symptoms that are indicative of bowel involvement suggesting endo.

If I do have it, l am worried by the time it is confirmed it will be too widely spread and too late to do anything about it, as women have mentioned on this thread.

Either way the NHS were not interested. I can't take the pill anyway because type 1 diabetes and my age push up the risk factor for blood clots. The Mirena coil was pushed which I refused because hormonal contraception has made me severely depressed in the past. Doctors argue that Mirena hormones are very localised, but that isn't the experience of many women.

It is also unnerving how reluctant they are to remove a Mirena coil once installed, even after giving it a fair trial of six months but realising that it is causing issues. Again, women are not really listened to.

The NHS flat out lied to me that there was no endometriosis present which they cannot possibly know without appropriate investigation. Discharged me from the service.

A gp has told me "Endometriosis is NORMAL for some women" (verbatim) when I pushed for a second opinion, arguing I'd have to go to the back of the queue.

When I said I still wanted a second opinion he said he could only make the referral if he conducted an anal examination first, and he was sure I didn't want that, so...

I am not remotely squeamish about intimate examinations in normal circumstances, but it was obvious that was a manipulative power play designed to at least make me hesitate and perhaps change my mind, which rang massive alarm bells. So I declined as I was leaving the UK within the year, deciding to sort it out in my new city.

I have since found a doctor who doesn't minimise and manipulate the issues I am concerned about. Thanks to fucking covid I haven't had investigations yet, but I am relieved to know I have proper help lined up.

The NHS is a disgrace when it comes to women's health. Accessing appropriate diagnostics and treatment means completing an obstacle course of gaslighting, humiliation and being treated like a silly little time-wasting woman for having the temerity to want to improve your health.

It is not designed to help women, and will take years to change.