To not be suprised AT ALL about Costa?

[AlexanderHalexander]

Couldn't see another thread on this, despite looking.

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/03/costa-coffee-to-cut-1600-jobs-as-covid-19-takes-toll-on-cafes

I go for takeout coffee quite frequently. Since lockdown I've been in Costa twice, both times it was so stressful, rude staff barking orders, being shouted at across the store for standing 1 inch to close to someone in the queue (despite standing on the markers!). The staff were slow and made one order at a time, meaning loads of people left the queue. And you could only get somewhere to sit once you had your FULL order, really stressful with children.

I've been to Starbucks and it's really chilled, smiling staff and no stress despite loads of customers, people served quickly.

AIBU to think Costa has handled the post-covid return badly, and not to be surprised their revenue has plummeted?

We have built an economy on sand, frankly; almost entirely on service industries that will come and go as technology changes, as customer needs change. The pandemic has shone a huge spotlight on all of this and it's fucking awful for the people who will lose their jobs because of it but it's not my job to support businesses that no longer suit my needs

Agree 100%. A couple of decades ago, we lost sight of the balance of payments surplus/deficit being a major economic pointer, and turned to an economy based on moving money around rather than producing anything. That's now coming home to roost. If you look at the strong/growing economies, they're based on actually producing things and exporting them. It's the weaker economies that are service economies and reliant on imports. Having an economy based only on money slushing around from person to person, only works if it stays in the country - in the UK, because we have a massive balance of trade deficit on physical goods, a lot of the money flow leaves the country so the UK doesn't benefit from it.

If you look at the strong/growing economies, they're based on actually producing things and exporting them. It's the weaker economies that are service economies and reliant on imports.

And if it feels bad now, just wait until December and our lovely, shiny, patriotic, freedom-filled No Deal Brexit. Coffee shops will be the least of our worries.

I like the chai lattes in Costa. I hate Starbucks version so if I want a takeout drink, I go there. But I do think it depends where you are. Here Costa is always packed and Starbucks is empty, but there are no other cafes in town

This lockdown has made a lot of people, especially office workers, realise just how much money they were wasting at Costa and Pret etc. Not only have I stopped wasting all this money, I have also lost a stone of weight. The government wants us to go back to work to save Pret, but as has already been discussed on other threads, even people who do go back to work won't necessarily be spending like before. So even if the office economy went back to normal, the coffee shop chains wouldn't necessarily bounce back.

If you look at the strong/growing economies, they're based on actually producing things and exporting them. It's the weaker economies that are service economies and reliant on imports.

The alternative to a service economy is manufacturing and I'm not sure that that's the way to go either. There has been quite a shift away from buying 'stuff' and towards 'experiences' - it started after the 2008 crash but Covid has given it a shot of steroids. I really notice it in the town in which I live - a large national-chain department store is closing and will be turned into crazy golf centre. Another section of empty shops is being turned into a bowling alley and a cinema.

Shopping was still king for some though; until recently you only had to go into the town centre at a weekend to see how many people had piled into a car, paid a fortune to park, spent the day schlepping round crowded shops in a huge anonymous clone mall before finishing their day in an over-priced chain restaurant (yes, I know this sounds quite judgemental - I mean it as an example). People haven't been able to do this and the break may well have caused them to think "What the fuck were we thinking, wasting all that time and money?" and found something else to do, but it's also now not as enjoyable what with all the masks, queues and being told off for going the wrong way.

That's not to say we've all taken up stout country walks and improving novels as our sole past times, but cramming ourselves into shops to buy stuff we didn't need with money we didn't really have seems faintly ridiculous now. That recalibration doesn't sit well with manufacturing unless the manufacturing can be done cheaply, which the UK can't.

My instinct is that we will remain a service economy but one with its socks pulled up.

Interestingly, I've just seen this: www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/04/pret-offers-monthly-subscription-to-boost-post-covid-pandemic-sales

Now there's a good example of a company being able to flex and adapt. I like Pret and think it's a really good idea, I hope they do well out of it (although if I drank 5 coffees a day I'd be able to hear my own heart rate )

Do people really drink five cups of coffee every day?

My Ethiopian friends prefer Costa to the rest because it's more similar to Ethiopian coffee apparently... A stronger more complex taste.

@tectonicplates

Do people really drink five cups of coffee every day?

Yes just seen this too and thought, fuck me, 5 cups of coffee a day! I have two small cups of black coffee first thing and then I'm done for the day

I've got to admit I've got a soft spot for Pret; I do genuinely like some of their food. If they fancied biking me over a ham and greve baguette and a mango sunshine bowl with a few salted chocolate almonds on the side I'd probably embrace that change once in a while!

But this is the point; adapt and survive or...don't.

They can't be wanting anything other than a small percentage of the subscribers to take anywhere near 5 coffees a day otherwise all the branches would be packed out with limited takings.

They'll be hoping that most people rarely use the card, or a couple of drinks a week at most.

If someone did have the maximum allowance, it wouldn't even cover the cost of the coffee and the milk, let alone staff, premises, cups etc.

I have never liked the coffee in Costa, its always SO bitter and makes me feel ill! I would go to Starbucks although i haven't in aaaaaages.

We've got little independent places that I would rather support now, one opened in January and had to close virtually two months after so would MUCH rather give them our cash. Plus their coffee is lovely and the staff are so nice.

That recalibration doesn't sit well with manufacturing unless the manufacturing can be done cheaply, which the UK can't.

But we can with modern working practice, automation, etc. Just look at the UK food/drink manufacturing - from Heinz beans and crisps to fizzy drinks, lager and bog rolls - all mass produced low value commodities.

We lost most of our manufacturing when it was labour intensive so it was a no brainer to get things made in low labour cost countries like the Far East. Now, we have the technology to do more by machine, so we could actually compete with the Chinese sweat shops if we started mass manufacture back in the UK for other items.

If we can't stop people buying cheap crap, then at least lets start manufacturing it in the UK. Look at all the mass produced plastic crap - there are machines that pop that out. Let's make sure those machines are doing it in the UK and not China.

To be fair, our local Costa was appalling before Covid. Nice enough staff but always absolutely chaotic and filthy. It's much improved now. Always spotless, organised and generally a more pleasant place to be. Caffe Nero and the independent coffee shops do have better coffee though.

Imo, we should be looking at manufacturing more essentials - look at the whole PPE fiasco at the start of the corona virus here? Reliant on countries like China or Turkey for PPE, when the US with its greater resources could afford to bid more for it or world stocks of a drug. This is where global markets fall down!

I go for a coffee every day and opt for Starbucks over Costa every time, especially since COVID.

The staff in Starbucks are lovely, helpful and relaxed, it's clean, it's airy and I love their coffee.
Costa, however, is dirty, sticky, smelly, the sofas are always rotten and the coffee is so bitter. The staff are nice enough, but the place just isn't enjoyable.

I'm not surprised they're going to pot.

I work in manufacturing we have lost loads of business to the far east and china especially for items that are labour intensive to make. The quality is not as good, but clients who rarely order new items from our company often send us imported items that have broken or need to be altered in some way, because they dont want the time, expense or hassle of sending back to china or the far east and waiting 6 or 8 weeks.

@Pinksmyfavoritecolour
Having worked for costa for many years I can say with absolute honesty that, not only are they an amazing company to work for, but also we are paid for opening and closing, it's part of our shift!

I know someone who worked for Starbucks and she said she has PTSD. Slight exaggeration I think but it really did stress her out massively.

Things like how good they are to work for can vary from branch to branch too don’t forget. I worked for a national chain of bakeries and the one I worked at was fantastic but when I covered for another local one that was awful and I wouldn’t have wanted to be there full time

Costa is a bit crap, it always was (dirty sticky tables, Slow service, nobody who “cares” looking after the place with a bit of pride, trays dirty too, and that stale cheesy smell permeating from the sad toasties that were originally made a week ago )

But I have a weak spot for Pret, somehow I pretty much like everything there, there is always a visible approachable manager in charge and the food is always fresh and nice, imo. It’s a reliable lunch place. A bit £££ but I miss my Prey lunches!

I agree about Pret, but maybe that's because they've grown out of being a takeaway sandwich place rather than a sit down coffee place? I really like Pret sandwiches, but I think the food in Costa is dull, especially for vegetarians. I don't necessarily expect great coffee in Pret, but that's what Costa is meant to be built around, so if they get that wrong it's a big problem. I think Pret staff are better trained too.

Starbucks as by far the worst coffee, it all tastes like decaff.

Pret has the best coffee out of all of them, for me, but standards in their food have been slowly declining for years. They peaked in the 00s.

However they had some really delicious things recently like their veggie brioche breakfast roll and their veggie soups - the Thai vegetable is heavenly. All the things they are, however, not actually bothering to sell at the moment so there is literally no point to my going in.

Loads of chains just got complacent and greedy at the top, whether they sold coffee or knickers.

I remember the first Costa I visited on Manchester Piccadilly station in the 1990s, it was a revelation and wonderful.

Yeh Starbucks coffee is awful. Starbucks tea is awful.

They expanded by giving people a place to kill time.

At least costa coffee and cafe nero have nice coffee. And real tea. They arent cheap but their coffee is v good. Would love a costa cortado now.

Mmm.

At least costa coffee and cafe nero have nice coffee. And real tea

Costa tea is terrible too! One reason I avoid Costa is I've never found a branch where they understand that you can't just slosh a load of milk in the second the tea bag is wet.

I think all chains go rapidly downhill when they expand beyond a certain level. I can't think of any that hasn't. They all seem to lose control over quality of food, drinks, service, cleanliness. The only attraction of a chain for me is its predictability and consistency - knowing what they sell, that it always tastes the same, that the tables are always clean, the staff are always friendly, etc. It's surprising that they don't put more effort into consistency. But maybe it's just greed - they choose to cash in on the brand while it's popular at the expense of long term success.