AIBU to say I am proficient in a language on a Civil Service application?

[MadCatEnthusiast]

Posting here for some traffic.

I've found a job that a desirable skill for the role is to be "proficient" in a European language like German, French and Spanish for example. Google's definition tells me that proficiency means to read and write with no problem which I can. Some of my friends and family say it's fairly arbitrary of what proficiency is which confuses me further.

I can read/speak one of them to a B1 level and get the overall gist of B2 and fluent language texts. I also did speak it fluently as a child (still message some people in that language as well) which really wasn't that long ago. I know I would be able to pick it back up quicker than the average person who has no experience in it. I just have not been back in a French-speaking environment in over a decade.

Would it be unreasonable to say that I am proficient and apply for the role anyway? It only says that English will be assessed but at interview, I would tell the truth and say that I am committed to getting myself back to fluency and count that as part of one of the success profile behaviours of engaging internationally - where one of the points is to have a "working knowledge of country context and be interested in learning languages".

Also, on another note, has anyone had experience of needing to explain the 'Engaging Internationally' and 'Demonstrating Resilience'. Could I incorporate part of these behaviours into my overall answers and personal statement or are these demonstrated at interview?

I'll test myself quickly with the French Institute if it's possible. However, the interview may be before then.

Should I expand on this or keep it short and sweet and say I use it in informal discussions when I'm in the interview? I really don't want to say the wrong thing and downgrade myself

I would say if asked that it's a bit rusty but within a few days of being in the country it would all come flooding back. My German is still stuck in the mid to late 90s as that's when I lived there. It's a bit like hard work if I have to speak it now but if I spent a week there and only spoke German I would be back to full capacity and might pick up some more modern slang, too. As it is, I am nearly always there with my husband and son and so speak English nearly all the time. And the last time I went on my own I did speak German with a friend but then fell in with a bunch of English-speaking parkrunners :)

Proficient is a ridiculously vague description if not accompanied by the Common Framework letter/number, but if it's the only level available between basic and excellent that it is the best fit for your situation. I would certainly try to practice as much as poss between now and the interview (any possibility of 1 to 1 online classes?) and if you get the job starting in a few months you'll easily get up to B2 from where you are now. DD has the DELF certificate which is B2 level and it wasn't all that advanced. Doesn't the EU website offer an online test for the main languages? It certainly used to.

Engaging internationally is, I think, generally code for not freaking out in an international setting. You said you spoke French as a child - perhaps play up the context that led you to do this. It's about being the kind of person who gets to a new country and instantly starts engaging with the local culture rather than looking for the nearest English cafe or Irish pub.

French native speaker here (with slightly rusty French now, after years of living abroad) so will answer in French so you can practice...

La définition de fluidité linguistique varie énormément d’entreprise à entreprise et de personne à personne, pour moi parler une langue couramment signifie pouvoir l’écrire, la lire (idéalement), la parlée et la comprendre. Un bon moyen de ce repérer sur l’échelle de «fluidité Linguistique.» et pour trouver son niveau de langue est de déterminer dans quel context une personne sait se débrouiller dans la langue. Par exemple, cette personne peut-elle avoir une conversation assez compliquée sur un thème précis choisis aux hasard (politique, santé, etc...) ou peut elle seulement avoir des conversations sur des thèmes plus faciles, telle que la vie quotidienne etc...

Pour moi je parle trois langues de manière fluide (français, anglais, espagnol) car ce sont trois langues que je peux parler, lire et écrire sans problème. J’ai des bases en Allemand, Italian et portugais, car je comprend parfaitement l’italien et le portugais (Parlé et écrit) mais ne le parle pas vraiment et je comprends et parle assez bien Allemand mais pas assez pour me considérer bilingue. Et je suis débutante en chinois car même si je connais certaine phrase et mots mes connaissances sont limitées à des choses très basique.

Tu peux faire des tests en ligne pour savoir ton niveau de français plus ou moins, mais je pense qu’expliquer ton niveau de français pendant l’entretien marche aussi.

Argh, écrire en français est plus difficile que dans mes souvenirs, comme quoi, même les français(es) réussissent aussi à perdre leurs français.

Bonne chance pour l’entretien!

I've worked for the FCO, consular, and honestly, you'll be fine. If they don't think your language skills are up to scratch, but still a good enough candidate to score highly in the civil service 'success profile' interview, then you'll just be asked to use their language course. Is this an internal post, are you a civil servant now?

@Linning, the teacher in me is itching to get out the red pen on your French grammar. But it just proves that competency is not a matter of perfection, which might help you OP.

Forgot to ask; what grade is the role? Exec Officer, Higher Exec Officer, Senior, Level 4 upwards? Because that determines the level at which you're expected to perform at interview. The job advert should instruct you how to compose the personal statement (I wrote one recently and it was 1000 words centred around the essential criteria). That, plus a competency or two, will be used to mark your application form, and if you score highly enough, you'll get through to the interview process.

Which 'behaviour' competencies do you need to complete for the interview sift? Make sure each competency has STAR: Situation; Task; Action; Result.

Civil service interviews, especially for sought after roles, can be very tough, and the foreign language is the last of your concerns.

[quote Fink]@Linning, the teacher in me is itching to get out the red pen on your French grammar. But it just proves that competency is not a matter of perfection, which might help you OP.[/quote]
Hahaha feel free to correct me, typing French on my phone on sleep-deprived mode after almost never writing it anymore has is not my forte and has proven harder than expected. So suit your teacher soul! 😂

If you were fluent as a child it’ll come back quickly. I have two languages at a high level (or were a decade ago). The one I learnt ab initio would take me a long time to get back to fluency but the one I learnt from high school comes back quicker. Weirdly I can understand a lot of french which I stooped after gcse but I can’t speak it all. I think exposure at a young age is totally different to a non native learner. You’ll have an ear for it that others just won’t.

Merci @Linning!

It's AA/AO/Level 1 so not very high up the scale but I see that it might have some good progression once I'm in it. I hope.

It's an external role as well. I'm just a fresh graduate with a few years of admin/legal experience

B1 is proficiency, B2 is fluency.

Sounds like you meet the job spec to me so I'd mirror their wording, that's absolutely fine.

@usernamewastaken Just saw the last bit of your message! The competencies are setting direction, engaging people and delivering results (the questions are: delivering at pace, effective decisions and partnering) with 2 international competencies which are vague in level 1.

I am using the STAR technique but struggling

Listen to @usernamewastaken. Language is the least of your concerns. Look up the civil service competencies, use STAR, and write a statement about why you want THIS job (and not just a job with FCDO where half of the civil service would like to work).

May be. I did German A level and an interviewer (at a law firm) launched into German - I did okay actually but it was surprising as knowing a language was not relevant to the role.
Also the Uk has a shortage of people knowing some languages so it might be a good idea to say you are proficient as you sound pretty good.

Pressed send too early. Struggling with international competencies and shoehorning them into the personal statement and the competency questions

I worked in a consular role, they did ask a few very basic questions at interview in a language I'd said I was proficient in. Basically why did I want the job so I could say a few positives about it.
The language skills of many staff were really quite poor, but they work(ed?) on the false premise that if you had the right skills then anyone could learn a language.

Have you done anything at all on an international basis, even making contact with a company abroad "liaising with counterparts in France" or helped anyone read through forms/submit an application in French even on an informal basis?

What are the international competencies?

It's not clear what the format of the application is. It will usually tell you the essential criteria. That is what will be assessed in your application and you should focus on it. You should use an example that mentions the desirable criteria, or build them into your personal statement. If you have the desirable skills (e.g. fluent in the language) but the rest of your application (particularly the behaviour examples) is poor, you won't get an interview. The only exception is if you have a really, really desirable skill. For example, my first internal interview was for a role as regional analyst. I expect my competencies were quite basic - I didn't really know how to do them - but I'd recently researched a book on the region for my master's.

If you are asked to give 250 word competency examples separately to the personal statement, you should prioritise those. Civil servants have been grading those for years and it's our comfort zone.

If the personal statement is additional to the competency examples, it may be graded too, but often less strictly.

I have seen successful personal statements which are basically STAR examples x 4 with a bit of narrative joining them up. (I'd use that format if they do not ask you to provide competency examples separately).

I've seen successful personal statements which are more general, about why they wanted the job and what they would have brought, but which also gave light touch examples in varied levels of detail.

Between my partner and I, we have recently done a lot of recruitment and just today we were complaining about people who don't make the effort to even pretend they want THIS job. You absolutely need to make clear why this, working in a consular role or whatever it is, is the job you want. Lots of applications are too generic, or they obviously just want a promotion, or they want a way in to the Department. In FCDO, they expect people to stay in the role for a while - longer than other departments do - so wanting the specific role will be important.

(FWIW, I have had an interview for every job I've applied for at the FCO. I'm not proficient at any other language. So I think I'm pretty good at applications. I'm absolutely shocking at interview though!)

Ha ha. Sorry @Linning, I do feel bad about it. I think it's probably because French is taught (in both France and the UK) in such a prescriptivist way that years of dictée correction get internalised. Plenty of the native speakers I've worked with (mainly the ones who are native francophone but not French) have much worse spelling and grammar than the people who learned it from school.

I remember when I was a teaching assistant in France a primary school child wrote me a little note. I thought it was really cute so I showed it to my (French) friend while I was round his house. His Mum, who was also there visiting, literally took a pen out of her handbag and corrected the spelling!

@BeansMeansWines

What are the international competencies?

It's not clear what the format of the application is. It will usually tell you the essential criteria. That is what will be assessed in your application and you should focus on it. You should use an example that mentions the desirable criteria, or build them into your personal statement. If you have the desirable skills (e.g. fluent in the language) but the rest of your application (particularly the behaviour examples) is poor, you won't get an interview. The only exception is if you have a really, really desirable skill. For example, my first internal interview was for a role as regional analyst. I expect my competencies were quite basic - I didn't really know how to do them - but I'd recently researched a book on the region for my master's.

If you are asked to give 250 word competency examples separately to the personal statement, you should prioritise those. Civil servants have been grading those for years and it's our comfort zone.

If the personal statement is additional to the competency examples, it may be graded too, but often less strictly.

I have seen successful personal statements which are basically STAR examples x 4 with a bit of narrative joining them up. (I'd use that format if they do not ask you to provide competency examples separately).

I've seen successful personal statements which are more general, about why they wanted the job and what they would have brought, but which also gave light touch examples in varied levels of detail.

Between my partner and I, we have recently done a lot of recruitment and just today we were complaining about people who don't make the effort to even pretend they want THIS job. You absolutely need to make clear why this, working in a consular role or whatever it is, is the job you want. Lots of applications are too generic, or they obviously just want a promotion, or they want a way in to the Department. In FCDO, they expect people to stay in the role for a while - longer than other departments do - so wanting the specific role will be important.

(FWIW, I have had an interview for every job I've applied for at the FCO. I'm not proficient at any other language. So I think I'm pretty good at applications. I'm absolutely shocking at interview though!)

I genuinely really do want this role even though it's actually lower than the grade I should be entering as a graduate. It's actually the perfect location and pay as well as I did a whole module at university about the main legal legislations used in the role. I should put this in there.

But thanks for your tips! Do you mind if I asked you to have a quick read over my application?

Again, forgot to mention the main part of my message. Engaging Internationally & Demonstrating Resilience are the "international competencies"!

yanbu
b1 is pretty good going and a good basis.
apparently I'm b2 in one of my languages but I would not be able to converse about my work field in that language (yet)

Have you read the Success Profiles Civil Service Behaviours? Link below.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/783325/2019-01-28-Success-Profiles-Civil-Service-Behaviours-Accessible-Version.docx

Are you sure it's a Level 1 position, not a level 2? What is the CS job site reference?

@usernamewastaken

It's definitely a Level 1 AA/AO role but also listed as A2.

I have read the success profiles and I am referencing them throughout the personal statements and in their relevant competency questions. It skips the international competencies which I had to find on its own.