To use measures like spikes to keep them out of my garden?

[Malikka]

I live next door to a horrible family. Bullying, sneery parents and their annoying offspring. My neighbours the other side btw are lovely, very quiet, 2 children under 5 who I barely see and when they are in the garden just chat and play nicely. This lot are a different matter.

Although the noise the awful side make is annoying, I've learned to live with it. What I can't tolerate is them letting themselves into my garden.

Some years ago I spotted the kids in my garden a few times and told them to leave. They had climbed over a lowish fence. The eldest was about 6 at the time and said 'youre not allowed to tell me what to do'...The mother then had a go at me for daring to speak to her kids and started screaming about me being mental (I take medication for anxiety and depression).

The fence then broke probably due to being climbed on, and there were a few more occasions of them just walking into my garden usually to get a ball they had kicked over or a toy or shoe one of them had chucked over. There are 5 children so lots of items.

I then replaced the fence. It is now 6ft high. Great. I also put a lock on the gate in our side alley. No more entries I thought.

A few weeks ago we went away for a short break. On the morning we were leaving I remembered seeing one of next doors balls in the garden and mentally thinking I needed to chuck it back. Halfway down the motorway I realised I'd forgotten.

When we got back it wasn't there. I assumed my DC had chucked it back. Just to be sure I checked the gate, it was locked.

Yesterday evening about 7pm I was home on my own having a bath. Heard the doorbell ring. Ignored it. My bathroom window overlooks the garden and is quite low, although it's frosted you can see shapes/ movement through it. A short while later I see something in the garden.

Get out of the bath, and look out the other window, brat from next door is in my garden retrieving a ball under the instruction/ supervision of the dad.

I have checked and the gate is definitely locked so either he climbed over that or climbed over the fence.

In my view both are completely unacceptable. Especially given it was with the dad's knowledge (my parents would never have told me to do this sort of thing and been furious if they found out I had! Likewise me with my DC).

Clearly I can't speak to the parents. I feel quite bullied here. Am trying to think of measures to keep them out - are pigeon spike things legal? Can I mount them on the fence and the gate?

If not are there other measures I can take? I just want peace and privacy. It's bad enough with all the noise let alone kids just wandering into my garden at will.

I couldn't put a camera in the alleyway that would show all of it, there would be nowhere to instal it inside. I wouldn't know how to fit it outside and even if I could work that out, it would probably show neighbours house as they are just the other side of the fence.

Also really it's only going to tell me they are climbing over my fence/ gate or going under it, which I kind of know already, it's not like I need proof of it. I know it's happening. I just need to stop them getting in.

I also can't put in a flower bed as the alleyway is all concrete and too narrow, it's only wide enough to walk down as it is.

Trying to work out a way to secure the gate, it's sort of like the pic below but with a straight top rather than curved. It's a really solid gate, has a lock so I'd rather keep it, but it feels a risk because they can potentially climb over it.

@1940s

Have you ever said to them if they knock for a ball (within reasonable hours) you'd be happy to give the ball back?

I've never refused to return a ball. I don't always give it back immediately when they knock if I am in the middle of doing something but usually the same day. They also often shout/scream when they're in the garden and hear anyone our side for X or Y to be thrown over (they are ignorant little sods who never say please, but we chuck stuff back because we don't want their crap in our garden).

I should say I dont ever speak to the children or their parents at all unless they have knocked at door. After the mum going off on one that time and trying to verbally bully me I won't engage with them at all for my own safety.

They absolutely sound like entitled brats and under no circumstances should be verbally abusing you or in your garden....

I do wonder though OP how many times you've been too busy to return their ball....

I feel you're stirring the pot a little, but ok I'll bite: I'd say about half the times they have knocked over the last 4 years and I have answered I've said I'll deal with it later or my DC will throw it over. I don't consider their ball or toy requires my immediate attention if I am busy. However, they have rarely knocked when I've been there.

In recent months they have knocked maybe twice when we have been home, one of those my DC answered and dealt with it, the other was this week. We have been in the garden more and thrown their crap back when we've seen it or they have heckled.

Until lockdown I was always out at work every day and sometimes at weekends so my DC would normally deal with them and throw anything back within minutes or hours, likewise if they were in the garden.

Feeling bullied in your own home is extremely unpleasant. At points I have largely stopped going out in the garden because of their behaviour.

@Malikka

I feel you're stirring the pot a little, but ok I'll bite: I'd say about half the times they have knocked over the last 4 years and I have answered I've said I'll deal with it later or my DC will throw it over. I don't consider their ball or toy requires my immediate attention if I am busy. However, they have rarely knocked when I've been there.

In recent months they have knocked maybe twice when we have been home, one of those my DC answered and dealt with it, the other was this week. We have been in the garden more and thrown their crap back when we've seen it or they have heckled.

Until lockdown I was always out at work every day and sometimes at weekends so my DC would normally deal with them and throw anything back within minutes or hours, likewise if they were in the garden.

Feeling bullied in your own home is extremely unpleasant. At points I have largely stopped going out in the garden because of their behaviour.

I think that's where you're going wrong. You don't like them and so you punish them by not throwing their ball over as soon as you can.

When DD and I play in the back garden and her ball goes over next door, she'd gutted because she wants to keep playing - so we lift NDN's fence, she pops under and retrieves the ball and the fence gets lowered - she doesn't hang about, or damage anything and NDN knows we do this (only if his car isn't on the front, otherwise she knocks and politley asks for it back). If he's home he invariably smoking at the back door and always throws the ball over straight away.

I'm not saying you have to play ball girl and immediately fetch it for them, but don't withhold their ball to try and punish them - that's just mean IMO

I mean, to be fair, I don’t think nipping into a neighbour’s garden to retrieve a ball when they’re on holiday or out of the house is too much of a crime. We’ve done it from time to time but I know my neighbours wouldn’t mind. If it really bothers you, perhaps you should make that clear to them first, and say that you will throw any balls back over once you see them, and not to knock for them if you don’t want them to. So they know the situation before adding spikes!

I also feel that you've contributed to this issue by being too busy to hand back a ball 50% of the times they've asked. If you're able to answer the door you're able to pop the ball back over the fence. You don't like them so you're attempting power play by being too busy to give the ball back

Be careful with spikes, there are legal cases where burglars have successfully taken action where they have been injured by protection measures of this type, and it might be considered disproportionate for a child retrieving a football. After all, these are children, and you should not wilfully look to injure them. A more proportionate response might be anti-vandal paint. This is waterproof none drying paint which is difficult to remove from clothes and hands but will not harm anyone. You can quite safely put it your side of any fence which should deter any climbing alongside some thorny bushes.

Agree about the Rottweiler plan they stalk and plot against kids you know (mine’s actually like a teddy bear and wouldn’t care).

Get some more cctv so you can see across the garden and the fences/gate.
Pots with tall spikey plants along the boundary.
Anti climb paint.
Pop every single ball that comes over before you give it back, it might encourage them to avoid throwing things into your garden at all. Feign innocence that it was a spikey plant that broke them if they say anything.
Netting nailed across your garden fences so they and their balls physically can’t get in (not ideal if you’re taller than 6 foot)
Drill panels into the concrete so they can’t move.
Hanging baskets along the panels with spikey plants, you’d see any damage and work out where they are getting in.
Report them for trespassing.
Creepy music from a horror movie and spooky lights set up as motion activated to give the little darlings the fear of their life.
Tall nets used in basketball courts on top of the fence panels, but I’m just clutching at straws.
Hope you get it sorted, shit neighbours are hell so I sympathise as I have them on both sides myself.

I also feel that you've contributed to this issue by being too busy to hand back a ball 50% of the times they've asked

That's a bit ridiculous - it's not polite children who occasionally, accidentally throw a ball over. It's rude abusive children and parents who throw all sorts over including rubbish. Why should the op be at their beck and call?

If you want the sort of relationship with neighbours where you can nip in yourself to get a ball, you need to be pleasant and polite to them, not throw used nappies into their garden.

Notwithstanding that, I don't think going in a neighbour's back garden without permission is ok. Even if you are friends.

@1940s

I was waiting for the good old MN victim blaming to begin

@OverTheRainbow88 glad to be if service;)

I'm not trying to be goady. But perhaps they started off with good intentions but 50% of their polite requests were rebuffed. How genuine is it that you can answer the door but truly not have time to run into the garden. If the door was being knocked every hour I'd say 'hey I can't keep running about? I will drop any balls over before I go to bed'

Ok, lets clear up some misunderstandings.

50% of the occasions I have answered the door is maybe 5 or 6 times in 4 or more years. Like I said I was rarely here to answer the door until recently. Most of their requests were received either by my DC or were yelled over the fence. Those were responded to in minutes. As were some of the requests to me. Others took half an hour, maybe more. They always got the ball back though.

This is not my first rodeo; I have raised my own children who are a little older than my neighbours and a damned sight more polite. When they played ball in the garden it was made clear they should do their best to ensure it didnt go into a neighbouring garden because they might not get it back at all. I also took my children to the park (at the end of the road) a lot as a suburban garden is not the best place to kick or throw a ball.

I dont dance attendance on anyone, children included, and it wouldnt matter how nice they were if I was busy my answer would have been the same. I would say the same to my own children too.

Also to make it clear, it is not just the odd ball. It is many different items that they deliberately chuck over including rubbish (ofc they only ask for the balls back)

I have never said they can come into the garden. I'm a very private person so would not want this even if I wasn't at home. I wouldn't want anyone coming into my house uninvited and my garden is no different. To me its trespassing.