Teaching shouldn't be in tutor groups?

[fleurdeliz]

Secondary School - going back start of September. All teaching done in tutor groups up to year10, no sets at all.

Wouldn't it be better to swap tutor groups around so that they reflect general ability?

I'm aware that those who are great at English might not be good at Science but in general there's a fairly standard aptitude (I'm a teacher but not secondary).

Won't it be hard on the kids and teachers to be teaching such a massive range of abilities?

Additionally most children seem to hang out with those from their sets rather than tutor groups. Which means that outside of school all the groups will be mixing anyway.

I get why it's a good plan to get teachers to move rather than kids but I don't get the mixed ability tutor group thing.

Anyone think this is a good thing?

@Shizzlestix

Yabu. Show me one child who is good at everything across the board and I’ll be amazed. I’d venture that most kids who are good at Maths are usually also good at Science, but not necessarily English or Languages.

They can be put in a different set for french than maths though.

Another whose DC's school has always done mixed ability teaching. Both my DC have flourished in it. My DS in particular is one whose ability across subjects is very variable and if he'd been in sets he would likely have been in the "wrong" set about half the time.

I was dubious before they started at the school but sets are not the wonderful be all and end all that some on MN think (in fact there are threads every year with parents whose children are effectively getting a poorer education due to being the "wrong" set and the school refusing to move them).

Worth noting that the results at our nearest secondary (with similar demographic of intake) which sets in every subject from day 1, are basically the same as at DC's school.

I’m fascinated by all those arguing for sets because they wouldn’t have wanted to be with disruptive children.

Do you really think every single less able child is disruptive?

And those arguing for sets because mixed ability teaching was shit in the 80s .... you do realise teaching has somewhat moved on?

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/evidence-summaries/teaching-learning-toolkit/setting-or-streaming/

Evidence is here.

Every class is mixed ability, even sets!

OldAndrew’s takedown of the EEF’s maths here, herc teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2018/03/03/why-is-the-eef-getting-it-so-wrong-about-ability-grouping/
(A couple of updates in the linked blogs at the bottom too).

In the interests of accuracy I should say that maths is the only subject that the DC's mixed ability school does normally teach in sets (though like OP's school they are now teaching it mixed ability in KS3 in September). So I would agree that maths teaching needs very careful consideration.

@Shizzlestix

Yabu. Show me one child who is good at everything across the board and I’ll be amazed. I’d venture that most kids who are good at Maths are usually also good at Science, but not necessarily English or Languages.

My DS1 was one of those children, just good at everything which was very lucky. I know he was in the minority though. Most of his friends were either good at Maths/Sciences or English/History etc

Hello,
As a teacher I understand your message totally. I think it depends on the school, as ours are taught as mixed ability until y9. In y9 it is only some subjects e.g. maths and science

Research shows that children actually don't benefit for being put in sets. Mixed ability classes are much better for all children.

I appreciate that it might be difficult for less academic kids with good behaviour if they’re stuck in sets with kids who want to mess around constantly

My DS is dyslexic and taught in lower ability classes with the class clowns. It’s done him no favours.

Research shows that children actually don't benefit for being put in sets. Mixed ability classes are much better for all children.

flawed research. Check out the blog I linked to upthread.

@C4tintherug

I’m a teacher and at my school we have never taught them in sets. We were always told that evidence for setting pupils is actually very weak and generally pupils perform better in mixed ability groupings.

Although considering they should be in year group bubbles it shouldn’t really matter anyway but I guess it reduces movement around the school.

Apparently, the most recent evidence shows that most kids do better in mixed ability classes, and that we shouldn't set them at all.

Except that is for the top 10% who do better in sets.

tricky hey?
As a parent of 3 top 10% kids, we solved the problem by sending them to grammar school, as while I am in sympathy for the best for society, I would like mine to also get the best for THEM.

One interesting thing that I haven't been able to find out though, is it the top 10% always, in other words, if you remove the top 10%, then does the group who then become the top 10% in that class then suffer? Or is it more like the kids who fit into the top 10% nationally? Does it make any difference what the spread of the class is, ie where the bottom of the class is, what the range is? and so on.

I suppose the answer is to have very good behaviour management in all schools so that poor behaviour never gets in the way of teaching. Then sets are less important. I chose my sons’ secondary school partly because of how strict they are. All pupils have to work in silence during every lesson, for example. Consequently they have always had the best GCSE results in our city. My kids are less academic than some but hopefully by being forced to get on with work they will end up doing better than I think they would have done at the more local school where behaviour standards are not so high.

Local high school to me has vertical tutor groups normally so they'll have a few from each each group in a tutor group which is then your house, i think 6 tutor groups per house.

From their website I can see they've ditched tutor time and assigned each year group an area. Years 7 and 8 taught in 1 group in their area apart from Science where they'll go to the labs in the Year 9 area.

Years 9-11 taught in ability sets where possible. They will stay in their areas and there will be no DT, Art or Music for these classes.

6th Form are still mostly on home learning from what I can tell, they'll be in once or twice a week to have face to face with their teachers.

No PE for any classes - it's the school I went to so I know they have no sporting facilities on site, usually once a week a bus took your year group to the local sports centre for an afternoon of PE so that won't be happening now.

By 1 group I mean groups of 25-30 not year group groups

School here does a combination of setting and mixed ability. Highest performing school for miles and the one everyone wants but it is somewhat unusual.

Misbehave in class and after 2 warnings, you go to set 8. Regardless of ability and no exceptions. You have to show an improvement in behaviour to be allowed back to your regular class and it takes at least a month.

Set 7 is very small and is for DC who have SEN or physical disabilities requiring extra assistance.

Sets 2 to 6 are mixed ability. Set 1 is top ability.

Sets are different for each subject and being set 1 in maths doesn't mean set 1 in English. Similarly, being moved to set 8 in maths for bad behaviour doesn't mean set 8 for English.

YANBU school should be open and carry on as usual, with sets, with break times etc. I think it’s going to be so damaging all round if kids have to grow up with schools like this.