The latest reports about Teachers passing Covid on and the Scottish response has got me worried.

[Witchcraftandhokum]

Firstly let me say, I absolutely agree that children need to be back in school.

Up until yesterday I was worried about the return to school but it was more to do with the logistics of managing the bubbles and the effects on the students. But yesterday with the publication of PHE report stating that teachers pass Covid on and the news that a school in Scotland where staff and students had to self isolate has been linked to 27 other cases in the city I am really worried.

I think the government are setting school staff up to be blamed for a second wave. Anti-teacher sentiment is high at the moment and this will not help.

The effect of me exposing myself to a higher risk of catching it is problematic. My husband has just returned returned properly to work, him having to self isolate for two weeks would be a major problem. Since lockdown I have only seen my parents for a limited number of times as they are in their 70's, as well as my 100 year old grandmother. I feel that on my return to school I will now not be able to see them at all for fear of exposing them. I worry that in particular with my grandmother that she dies and I won't have seen her for months.

I really don't know what the answer is.

I also really don't understand how the government can say that we need to wear masks in shops but not at school, then blame school staff for passing it on.

Is there anyway that those who think I'm being unreasonable can tell me why? I'm not looking for a fight just possibly some reassurance.

I agree that school staff are being set up to take the blame for any increase infections. I have no idea what the answer is though, we will do our best to wash hands etc but social distancing in a primary school is impossible.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. I know are schools aren't even face to face yet and the schools are being shut down due to clusters. Our state Unis had all the students move in about 3 weeks ago and last week they moved everyone out and went online only because too many students tested positive

You're being unreasonable because:

You're talking about blame, based on what are simply factual reports of what happens, it suggests you have quite an unhealthy idea of the world - ie that someone has to be blamed, and you cannot simply understand the reasons that something happens without it being someone's fault.

You're using the word risk, yet are purely talking about the risk of catching covid, which is just meaningless as a test, risks need to be evaluated in terms of all risks, not one dimensional thing - you're also generalising your specific risk with you and your grandma to "all teachers / schools".

sirfredfredgeorge I'm really not generalising the risk, I'm just talking about why I'm worried.

@sirfredfredgeorge I do think that school outbreaks will be blamed on school staff, just like Hancock blamed care workers for not rigorously following guidance whilst ignoring the fact that at the time they did not have adequate / any PPE and people with Covid were being released from hospitals to care homes due to the lack of testing. It is a way for the government to deflect attention from the failings of their own guidance.

I partly agree that this appears a move to publicly scapegoat staff/teachers for outbreaks however the limited evidence I've read reinforces adult to child transmission rather than the other way, as per the case you refer to. I can completely understand you are worried. All you can really do is establish your own tolerance to the perceived risk (taking into account your own circumstances) and go from there.

That's interesting FallingIguanas the report worried me as I perceived it and concentrating on adult to adult infection ie. School staff passing it to each other. (Although the only person I have met who has had it is one of my pupils)

You're talking about blame, based on what are simply factual reports of what happens

the limited evidence I've read reinforces adult to child transmission

There’s no evidence of who infected whom and the “facts” are very limited - the only fact seems to be that more teachers tested positive than children, but only people with symptoms are tested and children are more often asymptomatic...

However the story that’s being spun is:

more teachers tested positive => teachers must be infecting each other => teachers must behave more responsibly (in and out of school) and if there are outbreaks in schools then it must be the teachers’ fault.

Teachers are being set up.

Yanbu.

It's generally accepted worldwide children age generally asymptomatic.

So you have symptomatic teachers tested. They won't test asymptomatic pupils in school.

So they no idea where infections originated or the true numbers of pupils infected.

So using the absence of information they are saying it must be school staff passing it between themselves.

Which considering they are in bubbles with students and not mixing in all schools I know it would seem unlikely anyway!

Haha hip x posts!

The thing is, I don't really understand how the bubbles work. In our secondary we have made up year group bubbles, but the staff are going to be teaching across the bubbles, and obviously families with children in different year groups will risk cross-contamination.

I think the government are setting school staff up to be blamed

Yes, I think they are.
If it goes wrong in schools the teachers and school staff will be blamed.
They way the outbreak in Dundee is being published is already doing this. The Government's own words and documents suggest the same.

@Witchcraftandhokum

The thing is, I don't really understand how the bubbles work. In our secondary we have made up year group bubbles, but the staff are going to be teaching across the bubbles, and obviously families with children in different year groups will risk cross-contamination.

Do you spend time in classrooms and staff rooms and offices with other staff?

I think the government are setting up parents to be ok with children and teachers wearing mask.

By providing a report that their children my catch it from adults, well wearing masks seems much more acceptable.

Whereas when it was teachers catching it from children there were cries of children being scared and possible mental health issues. People weren’t overly concerned about teachers getting ill. But now it’s the children it’s all change.

This report allowed the government to u turn without losing face.

I don't really understand how the bubbles work

Bubbles in schools don't work. I think everyone who works in a school know this. I think most parents probably know this.

They may have worked when they were set to 15 in a class at a time, but they don't work when a school is full.

But they do sound nice and safe and cosy - and the Government like that.

Yep. Teachers have to minimise the risk of bringing the virus into school.

YABU. We are absolutely about to be scapegoated when our bosses at the DfE refuse to do anything meaningful to protect us.

itsgettingweird. Yes. There will be learning support assistants in classrooms with teachers. The office staff all work in one room and our first 2 days are staff training with all the staff in one room, then multiple smaller meetings.

SmileEachDay I don't understand how you think I'm being unreasonable when you seem to be agreeing with me, have I misunderstood?

Witchcraftandhokum

Ha. No. I meant yaNbu!!

That's a relief SmileEachDay I thought my brain had addled over the summer holidays!

@Witchcraftandhokum

itsgettingweird. Yes. There will be learning support assistants in classrooms with teachers. The office staff all work in one room and our first 2 days are staff training with all the staff in one room, then multiple smaller meetings.

I'd be questioning that.

Office staff should have Perspex screens as per guidance.

Staff should be social distance in the meeting.

Rooms should be ventilated.

Quite frankly if they are binging all staff into a room without safety measure then actually your school are being negligent. Especially to staff.

I'm running a training course in a school (well 2 as federated and staff from each) first 2 days back.

This is what I do.

I've written my own RA with my collegue and staff are in bubbles, no more than 10 minute group discussions at distance. Masks available.
Room with doors that open and staff told to dress appropriately for possible temperature. Hand washing breaks scheduled into day. Bring one food and drink etc.

Nothing is Covid risk free but ultimately going to Asda would provide same risk so it's as low as we can make it.

I don't think that the virus spreading through the Dundee school is a typical, realistic example!

I would wait until it hits "normal" primary and high schools before being too worried, as far as I know one other child in another primary school has tested positive the rest of their class is self isolating but thus far has been no more cases of pupils or staff infected!

OP, unless I've missed an update, there were 17 linked cases, not 27.

The school in question is for kids with complex needs. This is likely to mean physical distancing is more difficult, and the pupils may be at higher risk.

There have been other schools in Scotland where a pupil has caught covid, been tested, isolated, their school contacts have been through the tracking and tracing process, no cluster identified and the track and trace closed. But the media dont seem much interested in the incidents being closed off, just the initial headlines.