Mental health- help me help DD please, posting here for traffic (am I unreasonable to do that?)

[Gayasameatball]

NC (I think). Trying to keep it short.

DD, 9, urgently needs the best help I can find for her. I've tried googling all sorts, and have contacted various counsellors/ therapists via online forms etc, but haven't got far and it's all such a minefield. The last one I contacted was an agency of some sort, but it came across as more of a business than seeming to want to help so I didn't go ahead.

She has previously been referred to CAHMS, but again, I didn't go ahead as by that time she seemed to have improved and I'd heard negative feedback about them (maybe just in my local area- I'm sure they do a lot of excellent work), and I worried it might make her focus on certain things unnecessarily.

She is depressed, and has lately been saying she's depressed a lot. There are certain setbacks in her life which most of her peers don't/have never had to deal with. She feels "different, ugly, not good enough, hates herself, wants to kill herself/die". This has been going on for several years, and is quite frequent.

She pulls her hair out, harms herself. Her anger is explosive and at times really is like some overpowering force inside her which she literally cannot contain and when this happens, she is BESIDE herself. It's deeply distressing to witness. It's as if there's a demon fighting to get out.

When her friend brought some biscuits she'd made the other day (they were a funny colour/texture) DD kept whispering to me that she was scared they'd been poisoned. She was really anxious. I asked afterwards if she meant she was worried they weren't cooked properly (as in salmonella poisoning) but she said no, she was scared her friend had poisoned them.

I've just given a few recent examples. There is so much more.

I'm just reaching out and hoping someone can recommend an appropriate, excellent child psychologist/behavioral therapist (or whatever the best description is) who specialises in this sort of behaviour and can help my daughter

She's only 9 but I dread to think how teenage years could go if I don't find appropriate help now.

I'm on the south coast just on the edge of the New Forest. But if anyone knows of a great therapist who can work online via skype or whatever, I'd be so grateful for details.

I'm also grateful to anyone who read this far.

Have you contacted your GP and mentioned the paranoid behaviour?
I wouldn’t take the private route with MH personally.

Why dont you want to take her to CAMHS? I know the received wisdom on MN is that CAMHS is generally useless, but thats not been my experience. Frankly, CAMHS is the only reason my DD is still alive. The staff she worked with were absolutely AMAZING.

Your poor DD sounds incredibly unwell. Please get her all the help you can - if you find a better private treatment, you can always discharge from CAMHS.

Thanks both. It's really upset me to see in writing that someone thinks she sounds really unwell. Obviously I know that, but it's hit home to read that.

@Wolfiefan I haven't mentioned that to gp yet as it was only a couple of days ago, but I will. Can I ask why you wouldn't go the private route? Do you mean because they're more focused on money?

I feel so incredibly awful for not following through with CAHMS. I just didnt know what to do for the best at the time, and at that point I felt it was the best decision.

@funnylittlefloozie I'm sorry (but glad) to hear about your daughter. I mean glad they helped. That's reassuring. Can I ask what age she was when she first used the service?

It’s not about the motivation of those who are working privately. It’s about how rigorous the appointment of such counsellors is. Who checks their appropriateness for a particular role?

I think your first port of call is a detailed frank discussion with your GP. They can advise you from there.
Very best of luck OP

Hi. I just wanted to give some input on private. As a teenager and an adult I’ve seen therapists on NHS and paid for privately.
Definitely pursue nhs referrals as the crossover across services (input into schools etc) will (hopefully) be more streamlined.
In terms of private look at British Association of Counselling and Psycotherapy and British Psychological Society for approved therapists.

Most will give a bit of their background and should give dates of qualifications. This can be a good indication as to how suitable and experienced they are.

I hope that helps in terms of information gathering and I hope the situation improves.

Have you tried build sound minds? My dd would be waiting for a long time for camhs. It’s apparently like PTS for adults. You can self refer online and can offer support etc. I’ve only just filled ours in today but I feel hopeful. Since Covid the government has put money in to support it.

Go back to the GP, a private therapist won't be enough and it's so so hard to be sure of their credibility (legally, therapist is not a protected title- anyone can use it without having qualifications)

Sounds like your best bet would be a chat with your GP and probably a referral to CAMHS.

Don't beat yourself up too much OP. Go back to your GP and explain the situation. Ask for a re-referral to CAMHS, explaining what you've explained here.
And if you want to go private try to find a paediatric psychiatrist - one with current or recent NHS practice who takes on private work. Your daughter's sounds quite complex and a comprehensive mental health assessment might save you a lot of time and anguish and prove reassuring in the long run. I don't think a counsellor or therapist is appropriate until you have a better understanding of what's driving your daughter's thoughts and behaviours.

Just to reassure, I've had brilliant help from CAMHS and a supportive GP, please don't dismiss their help straight away.

Thanks so much everyone for your replies.

I see, @Wolfiefan.

@Tillygetsit thank you, I will contact the gp tomorrow. I have previously been to GP - I've shown them letters/pictures etc. my daughter has done. But the last time I went, her referral was refused. They spoke to me about doing a parenting course- which they said is more about showing that I've tied every route, but that was at the start of lockdown, so that didnt happen. They also said previously to get a referral from her school, but they've been pretty useless really.

@SpottyShoes123
Thank you so much for all the info- I am noting all of this. I really appreciate it. I hope your experience of therapy has been positive for you- it sounds like it has.

@Doihavetogotoworkdotcom1 - thanks to you for your suggestions too- I hadn't heard of build sound minds but I will look into it. Thank you. I'm glad you're feeling hopeful and I really hope it helps your daughter too.

@itustiime and @justjuggling
I hadn't realised that about private therapists- thanks for pointing it out. I honestly up to this point had (naively) assumed that a private therapist (an expensive one!) would be my best bet. Feel a bit dumb admitting that. So it's encouraging that you're all advising the gp (but at the same time I feel dreadful for not just going ahead with cahms a long time ago) . I tried a play therapist for a while, but.. wasn't great. (DD still rolls her eyes about that when I mention therapy and.says 'eugh, are they going to make me draw my dad & make a volcano🙄😆)

@Gymntonic thank you- that's sound advice. I so appreciate everyone's input and support.

And @Timeforabiscuit (I just had 5😁) that genuinely reassures me. It's so encouraging to hear that people have been helped.

I'll be on the phone first thing tomorrow.

Oh, bloody parenting courses! Everyone gets referred to a parenting course! Just accept it as one of the (stupid) hoops you have to jump through before you get care....

My DD was first seen at the age of 8, so we've had nearly 10 years of this. Its a long slog, but she saw the most incredible psychiatrist when she was first referred - i actually cried when he retired.

Not everyone in CAMHS is good. But the ones who work with the children in most crisis are excellent. Please go back to them, and if you want to message me, please feel free. Very best of luck to you and DD.

Please go back to your GP and see CAHMS... I know not everyone has a great experience with them but they can be good (I have had experience with two of my four)

One of my children developed very severe OCD with intrusive thoughts and high anxiety. A combination of getting the right medication, and also therapy has transformed his life, from not able to function to a happy young man. We did end up with a private therapist who has been incredible, happy to PM you her details.. we see her in person (usually..pre covid) but she is doing skype.

Don't feel bad for not knowing, why would you? I'd say most people don't, that's not your fault at all

CAHMs in my area had a 12-18month wait, so we found a private Consultant Paediatrician instead. What we needed was some form of diagnosis, which then led onto the right type of treatment and therapy. I wouldn't do therapy until you know exactly what your DD needs...it could be an ASD dx, or depression, or ADHD or an anxiety disorder which all require different types of therapy.

They also said previously to get a referral from her school, but they've been pretty useless really.

Did they say why they thought a referral from school would be more successful than a referral from the GP? Because unless school are seeing the same behaviour you’re seeing at home, and are concerned that it’s impacting on her wellbeing and learning in school, what could they put in a referral? Any referrer has to provide evidence they’ve seen themselves.

So it may seem to you that the school have been “useless”, but it would be pointless them making the referral if it’s the GP you’ve spoken to and discussed your concerns with.

Also re: parenting courses. It’s to rule out it being a parenting issue before jumping straight in with therapy that will have little chance of working if the root cause is parenting.

Agree with other posters that private is not the way to go for serious mental health issues especially in someone so young. I understand that CAMHS is not the best all the time but she may need to see specialist psychotherapists and psychiatrists for children and this would be way more straightforward and well thought out through CAMHS. Rather than you trying to find who you think may help her privately.

I would definitely mention the paranoid behaviour to the GP. It may just be an expression of anxiety but could also hint towards more paranoid thoughts she may be having.

I’d try both routes
So yes GP and CAHMS
But also look for paediatric psychs and as a PP said find people who work both privately and NHS , and actively seek referrals

The reason for the latter is that IF she is having a really deep dip they May recommend some medication to take the edge off
My son had a very bad time year 6 , eventually I sent him
To a child therapist but , it’s was confidential between her and him
Which was somewhat frustrating for
Me to be honest

I think we Recommend private As cahms can be slow , and you need help sinner rather than later given her distress

Hang tight . It’s an awful and scary time
But there are solutions and help
It’s just a shame it takes such tenacity

Thanks so much to every one of you for your replies.

Paediatric psych/ consultant paediatrician- I think that's what I've been racking my brains for when I have searched for therapists, but it's eluded me until now so thank you .

Re. Paranoid behaviour- it's only now pps have commented on it that I've started to think maybe its more present than I'd realised. This morning for example- we have a new pet rabbit - he's very shy & wary and the seller advised us how best to handle that. She's convinced the rabbit doesn't like her, that he won't come near her, but likes me. She's getting all upset about it, despairing and talking really negatively, and getting quite angry with herself. She was also understandably upset that her hamster vanished (somehow escaped) but it was only yesterday that I realised she thinks it ran away from her , and that was a big part of her distress.

@meowcatmeow that's helped me see things a bit more clearly, thank you. I guess when I was.frantically searching for private therapists I just wanted someone 'good' but it's like a needle in a haystack

@CasuallyMasculine the last time I saw the gp re CAMHS referral, she said if both Gp and school put in a referral it might speed.things up. She definitely doesn't behave like this at school (not the obvious stuff but maybe the paranoid behaviour, come to think of it- but I'm only guessing about that). 'Useless' is maybe a bit harsh but I did ask the pastoral lead if they could refer her, she said they would but I didnt hear anything else (this was a while ago and obviously it's been a strange year). Also, dd goes/went to a weekly nurturing group at school, but it's really just an hour or 2 out of lessons eating treats (which she enjoys I suppose!)
I agree with you that unless they see the behaviour there's not much point- I assumed they would just go with what I've told them, but I don't know if they can do that.
I also agree with you re parenting courses- I was /am very willing to do it:

a) because if burning hoops need jumping through, I'll do it and

b) because sometimes I lie awake fretting over all the things I worry I've done to mess up my daughter (shouting too much when she was younger, not spending enough quality time with her, not having enough family around her, not socialising enough.. spoiling her in some ways..) I don't know. There are plenty of things to berate myself with and i really do, but then i try to take my own advice and focus on all the good, of which there is plenty. We're very close and I've always shown her a lot of love and affection.

@cinammonbuns this is something I hadn't really been aware of before I posted on here, and I'm so grateful to have it clarified for me. Thank you.

@Thisisworsethananticpated

So yes GP and CAHMS
But also look for paediatric psychs and as a PP said find people who work both privately and NHS , and actively seek referrals

Thank you- you and pp have suggested, I will take this advice. I hope your son ended up with the help he needed.
It must be deeply frustrating not knowing what's been spoken about from the perspective of not knowing if they're just saying everything is ok, or they're not mentioning the really important things etc. 😞

@StillMedusa that's incredible about your son- YES PLEASE if you could message me her details hat would be wonderful

Again, thank you to all of you for taking time out to reply to me. I'm so grateful.

I agree with you that unless they see the behaviour there's not much point- I assumed they would just go with what I've told them, but I don't know if they can do that.

They can do that. But it would have to be clear that it was what you’d told them, not what they’ve seen in school for themselves.

And actually the parenting courses round here are run by Barnado’s and are well regarded. There isn’t a focus on “what have I done wrong”, more “what can I do as a parent to support this process for my child”.

@funnylittlefloozie thank you so much, btw

@CasuallyMasculine that sounds great. Of course all I want to do is support her, so in some ways I'm sure a parenting course would be useful, but I just know that her issues are so deep and at times so severe that there's only so much I can do. Sometimes I'm just completely stumped as to what to do/say and she desperately needs that professional support and guidance.