The end of the private back garden? AIBU to think this is a crap idea?

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/architects-hope-to-tear-down-garden-fences-of-englands-future-homes/ar-BB18huJd

Reported in the Guardian this morning. The shortlist of developers drawn up to attempt solve our housing crisis by new design
includes the idea of communal back gardens that have to be booked in advance to use privately!

Oh yes I can see that going down really well on Mumsnet future AIBU

"My next door neighbour overstayed their time"
"I hate sharing and want peace and quiet"
"Cynthia has just repotted all my begonias"
"Can I put a swing up in the communal garden, the neighbours are complaining"

AIBU to think that this is just a really crap idea?

@midsomermurderess

Architects were not responsible for the failure of tower blocks. Do stop being so silly and running out that tired old canard. And it is also dull tired old stupidity and ignorance to say 'architects never love in what they build'. You just talk empty, cliche-ridden drosss And, private gardens are a very recent thing. Look at communal gardens in eg London squares, back greens in Scottish tenements If space is an issue, we have to think about how we use it. And most of the gardens I see on property programs, attached to often tiny boxy new builds, are tiny, horrible, overlooked spaces. Britain has some of the worst, meanest new-build housing in Europe.

Architects are responsible for the failure of tower blocks by designing unfriendly dark spaces with bad access. Yes the population of them ultimately define how a space is used but feel of a space makes a huge difference.

Private gardens might be a recent thing in towns and cities but not in a lot of the country. And even if they were a recent thing then is that a reason to get rid of it? Indoor plumbing is recent but I can’t see us going back to the outdoor toilet or even shared toilet any time soon.

@WeAllHaveWings

A "sharing center" and "community kitchen"? Fuck that.

It is just a way to squeeze more of the minions into less space and make them think it is a good thing.

They are cohousing features, and there is plenty of evidence that they support good mental health and happiness.

Cohousing projects don't tend to remove useful space from people's homes, they just have shared areas that avoid wasting space for that thing in every individual home. E.g. a laundrette. Or having guest rooms in a shared building, instead of every family having a spare room.

@midsomermurderess

And the 'posh' communal gardens in Edinburgh I can speak for. They are popular. Why wouldn't they be?

We lived in one of those flats in Edin. Never used the garden. Couldn't be arsed to traipse down 2 flights of stairs with all our stuff. Usually only used by the people in the basement flats. I'd imagine the ones where they're in a square and not directly outside someone's door might be more popular, but I'd never live in such a place again as I can't abide having neighbours on all sides (or any side, now), much less now so many of them are bloody AirB&B.

I think the core says it all.

Vote

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney

Well the comments and voting is pretty conclusive so far but I would be interested to hear the views of the 3 people who have voted it a reasonable idea and of their present circumstances.

I live in a housing co-op which consists of 75 flats/maisonettes around a central courtyard with green space and rooftop areas etc.

Some tenants have a private bit of space as well (a few on the ground floor have little gardens, and some higher up have balconies). But it works well; I like it and don't miss having a private space.

My daughter loves the place and spends hours outside with her friend who also lives here.

My dog has a toilet on our balcony for when we can't take him for a walk. And the gardens are really nice and you can get as involved or not as you like in maintaining them.

Also people have space on the walkways outside their houses for their own plants (I have various pots and bins and railing planters and a large planter).

That doesn't mean every back garden should immediately have its fences knocked down, but there are definitely more places it would work well, and as the public mindset changes, more people will want it.

The housing "crisis" is actually the result of trying to cram everyone into a tiny corner of England.

A better way to address the issue would be to spread economic activity around more evenly.

I think it depends on how it is implemented, as with everything of course, many shared spaces for flats etc are underused, if they were more interesting spaces with say play equipment, allotment areas, BBQ type thing, seating, proper tended gardens, I'm sure people would use them and if maintained by a private company then it would be great for old people who would rather stay in their own home not move out to a retirement village. Sadly probably wouldn't work in the UK, or England I should say, as there is not the mindset for that type of lifestyle. English people can barely manage, and often don't, to behave in their own private garden, let alone share something with their fellow neighbours without it descending into war.

The housing "crisis" is actually the result of trying to cram everyone into a tiny corner of England.

No. The housing "crisis" is simply what you get when landowners and housebuilders pay the party in power a fucktonne of money to ensure they can bathe in printer ink (or racehourse sperm, whichever is most expensive). As long as a sales agent can tell me with a straight face that the housebuilders will only release the houses on an estate in batches of 100 over the next 1o years "to protect my investment" then there is no "crisis" just capitalism Gone Wrong.

You're both right.

English people can barely manage, and often don't, to behave in their own private garden, let alone share something with their fellow neighbours without it descending into war.

Personally it's nothing to do with war, I just can't think of anything worse than sitting in my garden with a bunch of people who I only know by accident. I get on well with my neighbour upstairs but there are others who I couldn't bear the thought of sharing a garden with.

I've never bought a new house anyway, too pokey with gardens full of builders rubbish less than a foot down. Can't decorate, some have ridiculous rules attached.
So I'd never buy one without my own garden, can't stand being overlooked either. Nice walled enclosed with lots of high hedges

That sounds like my idea of heaven @Devlesko!

@Hingeandbracket

The housing "crisis" is actually the result of trying to cram everyone into a tiny corner of England.

A better way to address the issue would be to spread economic activity around more evenly.

Yes, indeed, nail on the head. Loads of parts of the country with lots of space prime for housing, but no one can live there because all the decent jobs are in & around London. Madness!

English people can barely manage, and often don't, to behave in their own private garden, let alone share something with their fellow neighbours without it descending into war.

It's not "English people" as a whole, it's the ever increasing underclass who are spreading. The vast majority of people are perfectly normal and don't cause problems. Like anything, it's the significant minority (which is growing) who cause the problems. With homes, they're the ones who don't give a shit about noise, nuisance, etc as long as they can do what they want and sod the neighbours. Until we find ways of dealing with the underclass, we can't really move forward.

Pink

Aw, it is lovely. Not big at all though, we are close to town centre. It's lovely to sit out first thing in the morning and we get lovely sunsets. Love it in between too, but usually busy.

Or having guest rooms in a shared building, instead of every family having a spare room

Rosiejaune - genuine question, how does that work? Do people have to reserve a guest room in advance? Are they paid for depending on use or is there a shared service charge that all the residents have to pay?

@Southwestten

Or having guest rooms in a shared building, instead of every family having a spare room

Rosiejaune - genuine question, how does that work? Do people have to reserve a guest room in advance? Are they paid for depending on use or is there a shared service charge that all the residents have to pay?

I've only come across that in retirement complexes; I have a friend who lives in a very nice little cottage on a small estate for over 60s and when relative visits her from Australia, they take a place in the hospitality house which, apparently, is quite nice. They can usually have it for two weeks booked in advance but last year my friend's relation had it for longer because nobody else had booked for that time.

I can't imagine it for people who don't live in a pensioner's complex.

I'd hate a communal garden for children, it's nice for them (and their parents), to have their own or else go to the park. It's fine for childless people who like to sit outside and read sometimes and I think those are the people who will go for such a place.

No way would I buy a property that had this unless the area was maintained by a third party. Who know who you will be stuck with..noisy neighbours out in the space all the time having parties, leaving mess and not tidying up. Or lazy ones who never help to maintain it so you end up having to do it all and they just waltz out and use it whilst doing nothing.

What if I want space to grow veg etc. could they then say as its communal they can help themselves? what if they say no? What if a neighbour erects lots of kids play stuff up ...

Endless amounts of stress and being hard done by is what will happen.

no thank you! The traffic on mumsnet alone would increase 1000% if this happened

I'd hate a communal garden for children, it's nice for them (and their parents), to have their own or else go to the park.

We lived somewhere with shared outside space until recently and now have a large private garden. I found the shared space way better with young kids, mine loved playing with other kids out there and interacting with the adults as well. I think they find the private garden boring in comparison

Thanks for responding @tabernacles. If you voted IABU on the basis of what you live in then you have not realised what is proposed.

You do have a private balcony and a space where you have a few pots of plants which you have acquired. You say so in your response.

By the sounds of things the communal spaces are big enough for your daughter to play in happily for hours. These are in addition to your private space.

This is not what is proposed. What is put forward is 4 houses sharing a small courtyard sized garden booking time slots to use it.

No balconies, no private spaces, possibly no larger communal areas ( apart from the play areas/ open spaces you get with new builds for large numbers of people. )

If Homes England think it's workable they will be putting it forward to developers.

I am worried that it has been short listed which suggests that someone thinks it has merit.

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney

Thanks for responding *@tabernacles*. If you voted IABU on the basis of what you live in then you have not realised what is proposed.

You do have a private balcony and a space where you have a few pots of plants which you have acquired. You say so in your response.

By the sounds of things the communal spaces are big enough for your daughter to play in happily for hours. These are in addition to your private space.

This is not what is proposed. What is put forward is 4 houses sharing a small courtyard sized garden booking time slots to use it.

No balconies, no private spaces, possibly no larger communal areas ( apart from the play areas/ open spaces you get with new builds for large numbers of people. )

If Homes England think it's workable they will be putting it forward to developers.

I am worried that it has been short listed which suggests that someone thinks it has merit.

I doubt they are intending that all new housing schemes will be exactly as described. That is just one possibility. The overall point is that more communal outdoor space can work well.

Even if some were like that, they still might have balconies or space by their front doors etc.

It really takes the rabbit hitch concept to a new level. A shared run with rotated rabbits on a schedule....how depressing. No, no Timmy you can't go in the garden it's not our turn.

Surely the one thing this year has taught us that there is both a need and a responsibility to provide housing fit for purpose for all of life circumstances. Singles, couples, families, senior, working, non working and retired.
Homeless were found accommodation so if the will is there short term can be found to take people off the street.
Family homes need to be that. Cramped housing leads to social problems and always has. Housing should be based on the 1950s size houses, decent sized rooms. Bigger gardens so people can grow veg if they want or room for families to play. The panic in shops ignited an interest in gardening for a lot of people. Families tied to the home this year should have sparked peoples indignation at housing not being fit for purpose and unaffordable with even a small dip in income.
There is probably a place for shared gardens but only in line with the numbers of those who don't have time or desire for their own garden. This should be in conjunction with 1 bed, 2 bed, 3 bed, 4 bed flats, houses, bungalows with gardens.
If I was in charge the magic money tree would be shaken for a large scale social housing building programme

Surely the one thing this year has taught us that there is both a need and a responsibility to provide housing fit for purpose for all of life circumstances.

And to stop squeezing lots of people from different households into small spaces if we want to avoid more pandemics. Surely we need to be looking towards more personal space in all settings, whether it's your home, your workplace, your school, pubs/clubs/restaurants, attractions, etc. Private gardens and proper large open spaces, have been the only thing that have kept some people sane over the past few months, especially in the early days of lockdown. I really can't imagine being locked down and having to comply with some kind of rota as to when you can use your tiny communal garden.